Acuvue Oasys - soon?

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by keith, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. None, but only because I don't have many trials of those left; fit lots
    and lots of them in the past. A good workhorse lens. I have resolved
    some problems by reverting to acuvue 2, to biomedics aspheric, and some
    extreme H20, speaking of hydrogen...

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Jul 22, 2005
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  2. keith

    LarryDoc Guest

    I find it very rewarding to change a patient who has "a little redness",
    "a little drying", "wish I could wear my lenses a little longer into the
    evening"---from some old plastic into a si-hydros and see them back a
    week or so later with complete resolution of signs and symptoms. A big
    smile on their faces and then watch the referrals pour in.

    I can't wait to clear out my old HEMMA trial lenses and replace them ALL
    with silicone hydros. The real question is: which of the si-hydros will
    become the "workhorse" go-to lens and the winner is............

    The One that comes in the parameters that I need to properly fit my
    patients for comfort, vision and eye health. IMHO, the only real choices
    then will be old plastic daily disposables for the swimmers/surfers/bike
    racers (we've got lots of those kind of folks around here!) and
    si-hydros for daily wear two week (or so) disposable and continuous wear
    users. All the other stuff will be the lenses of Costco/Wal-Mart and
    discount chains.

    Yeah, I like oxygen and hydrogen, and the more the better. Too bad it
    took 25 years for new technology to come to market.

    --LB, O.D.
    LarryDoc, Jul 22, 2005
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  3. keith

    retinula Guest

    how foolish of you. The discount chains fit way more contact lenses
    than practices like your's. they will be the ones with all the
    business, and they will be the ones with the latest lenses. all the
    lens manufacturers know where the bread is buttered.
    retinula, Jul 23, 2005
  4. wrote:

    The discount chains fit way more contact lenses
    I'm not sure that they actually fit contacts as much as they supply
    them, but the point is well taken. It's interesting that there are a
    few good deals at costco and sam's, and contacts might be one of them,
    since they truly have become a commodity and a -3 8.3 acuvue 2 is the
    same there as anywhere else. Same is true of Best Foods mayonnaise,
    although you have to buy a bigger container of it than you might want.

    My main beef with those guys is all the garbage they carry in addition
    to those few good deals. They buy a trainload of really bad widgets for
    almost free, sell it off at very low prices (although it can never be
    low enough for defective), and laugh all the way to the bank. Plus they
    have the gall to charge you for the privilege of shopping there. Gag.
    I haven't graced their doors for years, not because of the mayo or the
    CLs, but because of the discontinued, overrun, and defective trash they
    push all the while keeping a straight face as they skim off the obscene
    entrance fee. At least Wal-Mart doesn't charge an entrance fee. I
    think they make up that by spending less on employees. Where do they
    find all those mentally challenged people, anyway?

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Jul 23, 2005
  5. keith

    retinula Guest

    my point here is simple and straight forward. and i work at a
    commercial location as an optometrist just so you understand where i'm
    coming from.

    point 1-- yes, i "fit" all my patients well in contacts. i take as
    much time or more than private docs getting patients into the right
    lenses for them.

    point 2-- i fit way more contact lens per week than almost any private
    doctor. its the nature of my business. its called "high volume
    refraction". we don't treat glaucoma patients, etc. so we keep our
    exam slots open to people wanting glasses and contacts and we see lots
    of them. they come to us because our exam prices match the lowest they
    can get anywhere in town.

    point 3-- we sell our contacts inexpensively. I guess Sams club is a
    couple of dollars cheaper and some on-line places are cheaper too but
    our prices are very low.

    Combined together all three of these things mean we see lots of contact
    patients. the contact reps track our business and know it. they kiss
    our butts. we get the latest lenses and the best treatment-- way
    before the private docs do.

    this egotistical attitude the some private docs here like to portray
    bothers me a little. i do at least as good a job as they do at fitting
    contacts and glasses, at lower prices, with the latest materials.
    don't delude yourselves otherwise.
    retinula, Jul 23, 2005
  6. keith

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    Yes, but at the risk of getting back on topic, what about the Acuvue

    Also, what is your ratio of dispensing silicone-hydrogel lenses vs.
    hydrogel lenses?

    Dr. Leukoma, Jul 23, 2005
  7. I don't doubt that you do. Just a few questions:

    1. What the heck is a "high volume refraction"?

    2. How much do you charge for it?

    3. Where are you located (state,country at least)?

    4. How much do you charge for 1 box of acuvue 2?

    5. How much for 8 boxes, same lens.

    6. How much for 1 box of 66 torics?

    7. How much for a spherical fitting, if in addition to #2?

    8. How about a toric fitting?

    9. Do you do gas perms?, if so how much for fitting, and per lens?

    10. Any difference in fitting or refitting an existing contact wearer
    vs. a new prospective CL wearer?


    w.stacy, o.d. (you show me yours, I'll show you mine...)
    William Stacy, Jul 23, 2005
  8. keith

    LarryDoc Guest

    And how many "choices" do you offer prospective contact lens wearers? At
    the commercial dispensers I've seen, some offer perhaps two brands of
    lenses. I offer anything that's out there and appropriate.

    I'm sure there are commercial dispensers that do a fine job and get it
    right, just as there are private practice docs that are bozos. But when
    that sales rep offers the corporate honchos (or the private doc for that
    matter) a few thousand lenses at a ridiculously low price "if you buy it
    now!" , guess what lens will be their "favorite"? At least until the
    next reps comes by with a better deal.

    And then there's the issue of contact lenses seen as medical devices
    with health risks and benefits verses simple consumable commodities.
    That perception influences compliance and responsibility.

    No one here dissed commercial fitters, so why the hostility? You've
    opened the door, I'd suggest you try to close it.

    LB, O.D.
    LarryDoc, Jul 23, 2005
  9. If that's true, then they are doing a disservice, for sure, unless they
    refer out anyone who doesn't fit their mold.

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Jul 23, 2005
  10. keith

    retinula Guest

    i offer anything available that's appropriate also. and i have all
    major brands on hand including every type of silicone hydrogel. i fit
    whatever i want and/or what the patient requests. i am not told by any
    "corporate honcho" what to fit. if they have a deal for the customer,
    then it's reflected in their prices to the end user.

    contact lenses are a medical devices. we treat them as such. no one
    but a licensed optometrist dispenses them without a valid prescription.
    we trial everyone in lenses before we give them a final Rx and
    follow-them up to be sure they aren't having any problems.

    why the hostility? I guess I took the following remarks to be

    "All the other stuff will be the lenses of Costco/Wal-Mart and
    discount chains"


    "I'm not sure that they actually fit contacts as much as they supply

    do you think I might be wrong? really?
    consider the door closed.
    retinula, Jul 24, 2005
  11. keith

    retinula Guest

    what about Oasys? i think it is a comfortable and healthy lens. i
    also think that about 02 Optix. I view Oasys as a product for vistakon
    to position against "premium" silicone hydrogels like focus night and
    day and purevision (which I think is really a red-headed stepchild for
    B&L now). they will position advance vs. O2 Optix. stratify the
    marketplace seems to be the approach the companies are trying to take.

    like most everyone else, the majority of lenses we dispense is heavily
    weighted toward the traditional plastics. thats because we sell a lot
    of torics and multifocal as well as sphericals. a large percentage of
    my new patients coming in for exams are getting trialed on silicone
    hydrogels however-- that is unless they are wearing colors. i imagine
    my fitting habits are similar to yours.
    retinula, Jul 24, 2005
  12. keith

    RM Guest

    You said this,
    Then you imply that commercial dispensers sell-out their patient best
    interest for the "best deal" from optical sales reps when you said,
    Then you try to imply that lower prices for contact lenses that are
    available from commercial optical suppliers causes patients to abuse their
    lenses when you said,
    Finally you try to deny your outrageous remarks by claiming "no one here
    dissed commericial fitters". YOU DID!

    I too work for in a commercial eyeware setting. I have also worked in
    private practice, in an optometry school, and with a group Ophthalmology
    practice. I believe my current commercial practice gives patients excellent
    eyecare for an excellent price. Sometimes I run into arrogant private
    practitioners who think they are better than their commericial practioner
    colleagues for some reasons I can't fathom. We all went to the same schools
    and passed the same proficiency exams. I guess some people need to feel
    superior to others.

    Ph.D., Commercial O.D.

    PS-- I think Oasys will be a nice addition to Vistakons line. Does anybody
    have any information on pricing?
    RM, Jul 24, 2005
  13. keith

    LarryDoc Guest

    Well, it happens, in private and commercial settings. I'm glad you
    don't sell out your clients, but you will have to admit that it happens.
    Nope. You mis-read that one. Cheap lenses don't cause wearers to abuse
    their lens. Lack of information and follow-up care does. The perception
    that contact lenses are commodities does lower the bar as far as people
    thinking that if they're so easy to get, they must be safe no matter
    what. That perception can, of course, be corrected with appropriate
    No one did in the past, at least as I recall. I did so with
    reservations, that some commercial fitters certainly do not foster
    compliance and responsibility. And I added that some private
    practitioners are equally guilty of that same thing.
    And it tires me that I have to fix people who have received inadequate
    eye health and vision care because they were shopping for the lowest
    cost or the fastest get-it-done. And again, that does not necessarily
    mean it happened at a commercial place but you will have to admit that
    is exactly why people go there. There are bozos everywhere. I'm glad
    your not one of them.

    By the way, when I graduated from school, I was tempted by the instant
    big-bucks of a commercial chain, the franchise of which was run by a
    friend of the family. I was promised "autonomy" and promptly
    reprimanded and forced to quit when I did not meet the volume demanded
    (I refused to Rx +.50 readers, for example) and referred "customers" to
    private docs for testing not offered in the "store."

    Well, we've yet to see "one hour pacemakers installed or replaced" signs
    in the big box store or 'buy one MRI and get your CAT scan free!" offer.
    But I'm sure it's coming.

    Sorry, doc, I don't particularly care for commercialized health care,
    whether it's vision or plastic surgery or dentistry or anything. I also
    have little tolerance for incompetent doctors in private setting or even
    fancy university hospitals.

    I don't think you can find fault with that thinking.

    --LB, O.D.
    LarryDoc, Jul 24, 2005
  14. keith

    Charles Guest

    I don't doubt your words about yourself. As a consumer though with
    something like my eyes I would never usually go to a practice at a
    Wal-Mart or other chain practice. This is just so important to get
    fitted right. A private practices is more likely to have more
    experience. Another problem with a chain type setting is that there is
    likely to be turnover in the practice. I have used the optometrist I go
    to now who is in private practice for about 15 years and he knows me
    and I know him. I don't want to call for an appointment and find a new
    optometrist there every couple of years.
    Charles, Jul 24, 2005
  15. keith

    retinula Guest

    some of your concerns are valid but others aren't.

    yes, you might find turnover at a commercial outfit. where i work the
    doctor has been there for 10 years however so thats not true.

    no, the private doc is not necessarily going to have more experience
    fitting contact lenses than the commercial doc. the commercial doc
    sees more patients, recommends more lenses, and probably have more
    communication with the contact companies than the private docs in my
    part of the country! we get the trial sets for the latest lenses, as
    well as courtesy fitting samples well before any of the private doctors

    in my experience i have seen private docs preferentially fit
    private-label contacts on patients. these contacts are very similar to
    the more widely distributed versions but they have slight parameter
    differences that inhibit patients from taking their prescriptions and
    going somewhere else to get them filled. they only place they can get
    them filled is at the same doc who fit them. obviously they care more
    about protecting their income than getting the best fit for the patient
    (whose real need may include having a good fitting contact lens that is
    also inexpensive and can be purchased readily anywhere-- perhaps the
    patient travels)

    sometimes private docs resist giving out a final CL Rx claiming that
    they need to recheck the patient again in 3-6 months after their box of
    private label (expensive) contacts is empty to revalidate the Rx.
    recent changes in federal law makes this more difficult that it was
    before but i know that it still happens.

    look. my point is simple. don't have bias against any one group.
    there are good and bad eye docs practicing at any location. find one
    with a good reputation and stay there. i happen to KNOW for a fact
    that the better eye docs in my area practice at commercial locations.
    better in the since that they have equivalent training, at least
    equivalent experience, aren't out the rip off their patient for
    expensive materials, etc. some private docs could be like that too but
    some aren't.
    retinula, Jul 24, 2005
  16. keith

    retinula Guest

    you said "And it tires me that I have to fix people who have received
    eye health and vision care because they were shopping for the lowest
    cost or the fastest get-it-done."

    and it tires me to have to fix patient who came from a private doctor
    with an Rx that wasn't right and the patient was told "you'll get used
    to it" and "no, we won't refund your money for those lenses that you
    can't wear-- we are a 'doctors' office". it really bothers me that
    they were charged outrageous sums of money to get this kind of arrogant
    treatment too.

    sorry you don't like commercialized healthcare. it has settled in well
    in the field of optometry because customer needs were not being met by
    the private docs. customers were tired of paying too high of prices
    and getting treated by a bunch of doctors who have inflated
    self-opinions. this country needs major healthcare reform, and i'm not
    claiming that it needs to go the direction of "eyeglass world, inc."
    but it does need to go away from the direction self-important
    overpriced private doctors who try to maintain mystique around what
    they are really doing.
    retinula, Jul 24, 2005
  17. keith

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    Alright already.

    I spent my first year out of optometry school in commercial practice
    because I needed a job. The first six months of that year were spent
    researching a location, and the second six months were spent in setting
    up my private practice. During the first couple of years I
    figuratively "starved for my art," and for the most part haven't
    regretted it. My practice grew with the community, and I am now seeing
    the children of the children of my first patients. My practice is not
    limited to contact lenses and eyeglass prescriptions.

    I frankly don't have any axe to grind with corporate chains or
    optometrists who work for them. We serve different segments of the
    eyecare marketplace.

    Dr. Leukoma, Jul 24, 2005
  18. keith

    RM Guest

    Here's my favorite.

    A 45-50 year old patient comes into my commercial practice to get some new
    less-expensive progressives-- their last pair purchased from their private
    doc cost $350+.
    I find their distance refraction is almost plano, they see 20/20 at distance
    uncorrected, and they tell me they only use their specs for reading. I ask,
    "why are you using bifocals, why not OTC readers." They say "My eye doctor
    told me I needed bifocals so I bought them from him".

    How's that for meeting customer needs? How's that for looking out for the
    patient? Would you like to be treated like that?

    I'm not saying that only private docs do that, but in my state the
    commercial docs make no cut from the sale of specs and contacts. Thus there
    is no incentive for me to sell someone ANYTHING that they don't need. Not
    so for the private docs, and you can tell it sometimes. Of course they all
    aren't bad, but many are!

    It all comes down to personal morals. "Do unto others as you would have
    them do unto you"! (and I am not religious at all, it's just common sense in
    a civil society).

    RM, Jul 24, 2005
  19. keith

    LarryDoc Guest

    When you start seeing the children of the children of the children of
    your first patients, it's time to call it quits and retire, don't you

    Haven't you heard from AARP yet?

    --LB, O.D.
    LarryDoc, Jul 24, 2005
  20. keith

    Jambo Guest

    My local Costco carrys the Focus N+D lenses
    Jambo, Jul 24, 2005
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