Best Practice

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by mb, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. mb

    mb Guest

    Firstly I want to be clear that I'm not attacking people in this newsgroup
    like Robert, Specs31 (if he's still around), et al, who in my opinion have
    given consistantly great advice and have greatly increased my knowledge.

    But, this is my recent experience of visiting opticians to buy spectacles
    and it's not a happy one. After reading this newsgroup and deciding on mono
    pd's, heights, pre-frame fitting and lens choices with good abbe values I
    thought my purchase would be simple.

    /Rant on
    My RX
    Right eye
    Sphere -2.50 Cyl -2.25 Axis 5

    Left Eye
    Sphere -3.75 Cyl -1.50 Axis 170

    Optician 1
    "Mono pd's? You won't need that for your prescription."
    Rapid exit

    Optcian 2
    "I haven't got the lenses that you mentioned but I do have polycarbonate
    which has far better optical properties than anything on the market. Abbe is
    just technical jargon."
    Rapid exit

    Optician 3
    "No, we don't have those lenses but we do have Zeiss lenses which are the
    best in the world. Go to any optician and they'll tell you the same thing.
    Have you considered polycarbonate?"
    Rapid exit

    Optician 3
    "No, we don't have those lenses but we do have Nikon lenses which are the
    best in the world. What's an Abbe value?"
    Rapid Exit

    Optician 4
    "Yes we have those lenses, but you don't need pre-frame fitting and vertical
    centres with your prescription"
    Sigh, exit

    I could go on but it gets very depressing. So, I decided to go to the
    Optometry department of the local university, City University in London, as
    they must carry out best practice.
    My appointment went reasonably well, I described my past with badly fitting
    spectacles causing discomfort and poor vision. I requested mono and vertical
    pds's, pre-frame fitting, and found that they were able to supply one of my
    lens choices, Seiko Super 16.

    I returned two weeks later for my spectacles, at first glance they appeared
    to be ok and i ordered a second pair. When I got home I found that that if I
    raised my spectacles slightly and tilted my head back a little I could get
    clearer vision. When I mentioned this to them they said it was probably due
    to my prescription and that there was nothing wrong with my spectacles. I
    thought I was imagining it as they must know best. But, still if I raised my
    spectacles slightly without tilting my head I could still see better.

    When I returned for my second pair of spectacles, while the assistant was
    away, I decided to read my notes that had been left on the table. I found
    that I hadn't been given Seiko Super 16 spherical lenses but Seiko Maxima
    aspheric. I'd already done my research on these and they were different
    lenses. I also noticed that vertical pd's hadn't been passed on to the lab.
    When I mentioned this I was told that with my prescription that it was
    unecessary. Having read Specs31's posts about spectacle fitting and aspheric
    lenses, and having previous trouble with badly fitting spectacles I told
    them I didn't agree. The trainee then called in her Trainer who was
    absolutely adamant that vertical pd's weren't necessary for my prescription
    and glossed over the fact that different lenses had been ordered to the ones
    I had specifically asked for. Her comment was "You're not having a problem
    with aspheric lenses so what are you complaining for". Do vertical pd's and
    supplying the lenses asked for really cause opticians that much trouble !

    Anyway, to cut this short I can still see better if I raise my spectacles
    slightly and I'm still on the search for an optician that doesn't have the
    morals of a used car salesman. Which is going to be very, very hard
    considering that the muppets at City University appear to be training most
    of the opticans in my area.

    /Rant off

    Anyway, just want to add again that from reading this newsgroup for a number
    of years I know that they're very good and competent people in this
    profession, however you are very hard to find!
     
    mb, Mar 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. mb

    RM Guest

    You eyeglass prescription is likely overminused. Some of the excessive
    minus power in the top (=distance) part of the lens is neutralized by
    tilting you head back and looking slightly into the channel of your bifocal.
    This is the problem of the refractionist who gave you the presription.

    You are right to be annoyed at the widespread lack of understanding of
    ophthalmic optics these days. Nowadays, at least in the US, optometry
    schools spend way more time teaching optometrists the medical aspects of
    vision rather than traditional ophthalmics. That, combined with the "fast
    sell-sell-sell, make profit-profit-profit" mentality of the prevalent
    commercial optical chains makes finding a good technically proficient
    optician difficult. Finding a good optician is hard, and once you find a
    good one stay with him. Robert, who posts here frequently, seems quite
    knowledgable to me. Way more so than I am I'm afraid.
     
    RM, Mar 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. Hi mb,

    I must leap to some defence of TCU ( I did train there, admittedly 30yrs
    ago!)
    The Seiko Maxima is actually a more expensive lens than the Super 16 (which
    is only in spherical form) and from the technical literature would appear to
    be the same material.
    So if they charged you for Super 16 then from that point of view you are
    better off.
    The stock lenses are supplied finished from Japan (probably) and your
    prescription should be stock lenses. However the surfaced lenses are done in
    the UK.
    Regarding mono pds and vertical centration height, with your prescription
    the assumption is usually these are not neccessary, having said that there
    are certainly some situations when they SHOULD be used, and if you request
    their use then they should, I feel, use them. You know your eyes best
    Regarding the fitting it is possible that the panotscopic angle ( angle of
    sides to the front) may need adjustment. My suggestion go back and see them.

    As regarding the 'muppets' training all the opticians in your area TCU has
    the one of the largest departments training Optometrists in the UK.
    Dispensing Opticians are trained either by distance learning or at the ABDO
    College or near you at City and Islington College.

    Regards


    Ian Hodgson - Isle of Man
     
    Ian Hodgson Opticians Ltd, Mar 10, 2005
    #3
  4. mb

    g.gatti Guest

    There are idiots of all kinds in the world, now listen to this
    particularly fruitful idiot named MB
    knowledge.

    Great knowledge you have got, really!
    HOW CAN THE EXPERIENCE OF BUYING GLASSES BE A GOOD ONE, EVER???????????
    You exited because you think yourself a smart man, BUT WOULD HAVE
    HAPPENED TO LESS SMART PEOPLE? DO YOU THINK THE OD WOULD HAVE DAMAGED
    THEM?
    You exited because you think yourself a smart man, BUT WOULD HAVE
    HAPPENED TO LESS SMART PEOPLE? DO YOU THINK THE OD WOULD HAVE DAMAGED
    THEM?
    You exited because you think yourself a smart man, BUT WOULD HAVE
    HAPPENED TO LESS SMART PEOPLE? DO YOU THINK THE OD WOULD HAVE DAMAGED
    THEM?
    You exited because you think yourself a smart man, BUT WOULD HAVE
    HAPPENED TO LESS SMART PEOPLE? DO YOU THINK THE OD WOULD HAVE DAMAGED
    THEM?
    You exited because you think yourself a smart man, BUT WOULD HAVE
    HAPPENED TO LESS SMART PEOPLE? DO YOU THINK THE OD WOULD HAVE DAMAGED
    THEM?
    Yes, trust the Universities, where they should do research and instead
    simpy manipulate data for their own personal belief system...
    NOW YOU THINK THIS SEIKO SUPER 16 WILL NOT PRODUCE YOU DISCOMFORT AND
    POOR VISION?

    Perhaps for a while you may find them good, just for your mental
    conviction, but sooner or later you will start to feel bad, as usual.

    But I do not know you will have the guts to come back here and say:
    SIGH.
    WOW, JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR USAGE, THE LENSES WHERE ALREADY
    UNSATISFACTORY!
    the lab.

    aha, GOOD, the optician simply treated you bad, they cheated you, as
    usual, but HEY MAN YOU STILL HAVE HOPE!!! Your Super 16 may prove right
    after all!!!

    Let's see...
    So, we are in the hands of this really fraudolent people.

    First they teach a VERY WRONG OPHTHALMOLOGY, who destroys the eye
    instead of curing it, then they train their opticians nto to follow the
    desires of the client...
    BUT NOW, WHAT IS THE MORALE OF THIS????

    THERE ARE COMPETENT PEOPLE, BUT WHERE ARE THEM??????

    YOU CAN SAY THERE ARE ONLY WHEN YOU FIND THEM, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME YOU
    ARE NOT ABLE TO FIND EVEN A SINGLE ONE OF THEM IN DOZENS YOU HAVE TRIED
    AND FAILED.

    WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU WANT THAT THIS SCIENCE AND THIS MEDICINE ARE ALL
    BOGUS, FICTITIOUS?
     
    g.gatti, Mar 10, 2005
    #4
  5. mb

    retinula Guest

    have you noticed that nobody cares what you post?
     
    retinula, Mar 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Lots snipped
    In the UK anyone can supply and fit glasses without any form of
    qualification. Upto 15 years ago (maybe more) when the market was
    de-regulated spectacles had to be dispensed by or either an Optometrist or
    Dispensing Optician ( qualification FBDO) or an OMP , now this only applies
    to certain categories of persons, ie under 16 or registered blind.

    But going back to aspherics and fitting, we keep talking about optical
    centres HOWEVER with an aspheric the best position for the visual axis of
    the eye will be, I suggest, on the axis of rotation of the aspheric surface,
    this may not be the same as the optical centre if any prism is present (not
    in this case from the published Rx). Also pupil centre and visual axis are
    not neccessarily co-incident ( just use a reflection pupilometer and this
    can be quite apparant).
    Given the above fitting Rodenstock's Cosmolit Bifocal can be interesting as
    with all bifocals the seg height is what worries most people.

    Regards



    Ian Hodgson - Isle of Man
     
    Ian Hodgson Opticians Ltd, Mar 11, 2005
    #6
  7. mb

    mb Guest

    I was not "better off" as I had been charged for the aspheric and not the
    spherical. To how many opticians do I have to point this out to : my vision
    is precious to me and I will pay for the cost of good vision, if it is high
    I am happy to pay it.
    As long as the spectacles are fitted well and I have good vision through
    them then I will return to that optician every year.
    Hmm. Don't Americans have an expression about what happens when you ASSUME
    things.
    I'm happy that you feel that they should use vertical pd's, especially as I
    had specifically requested that they use them.
    That would be wonderful were it not for the fact that I had been harangued
    about requesting vertical pd's.
    Perhaps that's why the quality is so poor. Largest does not necessarily mean
    the best.
    Regards.
     
    mb, Mar 13, 2005
    #7
  8. mb

    g.gatti Guest

    I don't think so, many people contact me directly via e-mail because
    are afraid to be ridiculized by such a criminal as people like you
     
    g.gatti, Mar 13, 2005
    #8
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