Child & Contacts - Should I take him to another doc?

Discussion in 'Contact Lenses' started by FKS, Jun 24, 2007.

  1. FKS

    FKS Guest

    My 12 year old son is near sighted and wants to try contacts because several
    of his classmates have started wearing them. He has been seeing the same
    pediatric ophthalmologist since he was born (the doc is good). The way
    contacts are presribed at his medical group is that his assistant does the
    fitting and teaches the child how to use contacts.

    My son has had two 30 minutes sessions with the female assistant and he has
    not been able to put them in & take them out. I asked her to give me
    contacts so that my son could practice at home, but she said, "For safety, I
    cannot give you contacts unless he puts them in & takes them out in front of
    me."

    So, we have another session next week but I highly doubt that my son can
    suddenly handle contacts. The point that I'm making is, "Is it a standard
    procedure not to give contacts to me (and my son) in this situation?"
    Without contacts, how can my son practice and how can I teach him? I don't
    know how many sessions my son would need.

    Can I ask for the prescription and order contacts on-line? Thanks.
     
    FKS, Jun 24, 2007
    #1
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  2. FKS

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Let me tell you something: contacts are very uncomfortable to wear. My
    friend who wears them --I wear specs-- says that when she first got
    them, they felt like she had sand in her eyes for weeks. Also, you can
    lose contacts *very* easily; I doubt your 12yr old would enjoy
    spending a good 15 minutes looking for a plastic disc the size of a
    dime, when he could be out playing or studying. Just get him a pair of
    stylish Flexon --they're the kind you could run over w/ a freight
    train and they wouldn't break-- glasses w/ lenses that are:

    Apochromatic --correct chromatic abberations in all three primary
    colors; not achromatic, they only correct two primary colors--
    Atoric --corrects spherical abberations in all directions; not
    aspheric, they only correct the x, y, and z axes--
    ECM-9 polycarbonate --even thinner than normal CR-39 polycarbonate--
    Anti-reflective coating --reduces glare; you can see clearer--
    Anti-scratch coating --duh!--
    Photochromic coating --makes the lenses change from clear to dark in
    sunlight; w/ contacts you'd need a pair of superexpensive sunglasses--

    Something cool you can do w/ eyeglasses you can't do w/ contacts:
    widen your eyes, look over the lenses, and sardonically grin and show
    your teeth; this creeps all my friends out.

    If he really doesn't want to wear eyeglasses, get an opthalmologist to
    do wavefront LASIK on his eyes.

    Hope this helps!!!
     
    DarkProtoman, Jun 24, 2007
    #2
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  3. FKS

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Almost forgot. Dr. Leif Hertzog in Long Beach, CA is my internist's,
    and soon to be my, opthalmologist. http://www.hertzogeyeassociates.com
     
    DarkProtoman, Jun 24, 2007
    #3
  4. FKS

    Churie. Guest

    Hi
    Your suggestion regarding the use of lens instead of contacts was
    good,but lastly you have rocemended Lasik,which is not right,I'm not
    sure as to whether you are of the fact that a wave front corneal
    correction or a Lasik or Zyoptix for that matter can be done only for
    those who have attained the age of 22 years,with a power stability for
    two years.Check on this .Read and Refresh for yourself.

    You may be a good candidate if you:
    Feel that spectacles/contact lenses are a nuisance in your job,
    sporting activities or
    personal life
    Suffer from the effect of scattered light (aberrations)
    Have been told that your pupils are too big, or your corneas too
    thin,for standard treatment
    Need vision correction and have a prescription range of up to - 12.00
    dioptres sphere
    and - 7.00 cylinder
    Have had stable vision for the past 2 years
    Have healthy eyes, good general health and are not taking medication
    that affects the healing process
    Are older than 21
    What can Zyoptix correct?
    Personal factors to consider
    Career Implications:
    People in certain occupations - e.g. the Armed Forces or the Police -
    may be prohibited from undergoing laser treatment. Always ask your
    employer for advice.

    Age:
    Your surgeon might think it wise to postpone treatment if you are
    under 21.

    Time, after-care and commitment:
    The treatment itself only takes a few minutes, but all the tests and
    aftercare visits over a 3-month period will require your time and
    commitment. You might also need check-ups at 6 and 12 months.

    Money
    Zyoptix may be more expensive than standard LASIK.

    PLEASE NOTE: Only your surgeon can determine if you are a suitable
    candidate for Zyoptix, based on appropriate diagnostic tests and your
    medical history.

    Medical factors to consider
    You will probably be told you are unsuitable for Zyoptix if you have
    contraindicated eye or health problems.

    Ocular (eye) health:
    Your surgeon will examine you for severe dry eye conditions,
    infections, allergies, any corneal abnormalities or eye disease
    (either existing or within your family) that could affect the healing
    process.

    General health:
    Your surgeon will check with you that you do not suffer from diseases
    that prevent you from having laser treatment and may well contact your
    GP. You will have to postpone your treatment if you are pregnant or
    breast-feeding.

    Medication:
    Certain medicines might interact with the drops you will be given.
    Some examples are - medication for migranes (triptans), hormone
    replacement therapy (HRT) antihistamines and others. Your surgeon will
    advise you if and how your medication effects laser treatment. Be sure
    to tell your surgeon about any current or past health problems.

    What prescription range can Zyoptix correct?
    People may not realise how suitable they are for laser treatment,
    because they wrongly believe that their eyes are not weak enough. In
    fact, many patients with mild to moderate prescriptions undergo LASIK.
    But because Zyoptix removes less tissue than Bausch and Lomb standard
    LASIK, it can be performed on people previously unsuitable for laser
    eye treatments - such as those with higher prescriptions.

    The limit of what can be corrected varies from person to person, from
    surgeon to surgeon and from machine to machine. As a general guide,
    the Zyoptix system can correct:

    To about -12.00 dioptres of near-sight.
    The range for astigmatism is up to - 7.00 dioptres (with near-sight)
    Alternatives if you are not suitable for Zyoptix
    Most people who want Zyoptix are able to have it, but if not, your
    surgeon will be happy to discuss alternatives with you. For example,
    PRK or prescription implanted intraocular lenses may be good
    alternatives. A few people may have to accept the fact that they are
    going to need spectacles or contact lenses - and it is worth knowing
    that Bausch and Lomb manufactures a contact lens that can be worn
    continuously for up to 30 days. This new range is called PureVision
    and corrects up to - 9.00 dioptres.

    Zyoptix: widening the scope...
    Zyoptix means that people whose eyes were unsuitable for laser surgery
    may now be able to undergo treatment... reflecting your outlook

    Improving your working life is not the only reason to choose Zyoptix.
    Many active people who wear glasses or contact lenses feel they can
    never realise their full potential in the sports and games they enjoy
    so much... Talk to the clinic today, change your whole perspective.
    Terms of Use - Privacy Policy - Program Policies - Google Home
     
    Churie., Jun 24, 2007
    #4
  5. FKS

    p.clarkii Guest

    Certainly. the last thing you would want is for your son to get home
    and not be able to remove his contact lenses. the rule in my office,
    and in most all other offices I imagine, is that if you can't put your
    contacts in, then take them out, and then put them in again, then you
    can't leave the office with them. no one wants to answer an emergency
    call at midnight because a child can't remove their contact lens.
    some people require a long time to learn to put their contacts in.
    when I started wearing them it took me 2 visits on successive days to
    learn to get them in and take them out. its difficult to overcome
    your innate blink reflex.

    what part of the contact lens insertion and removal process is the
    most difficult for your son? if his problem is that he blinks
    excessively then he can practice at home touching his sclera (white
    portion of eye) with the edge of his finger to desensitize himself.
    sometimes it helps to switch contact lens trainers-- someones style or
    technique in teaching a person may work better for a particular
    personality.
    if you live in the US, then yes. if your son gets a final approved
    contact prescription then it is your right under law to get a copy.
     
    p.clarkii, Jun 24, 2007
    #5
  6. FKS

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Oh yeah...
     
    DarkProtoman, Jun 24, 2007
    #6
  7. FKS

    FKS Guest

    I know that I can order contacts online in the US. Are you saying that my
    son's contact prescription still need a final approval? The lenses were
    ordered according to the ophthalmologist's prescription. So, I thought that
    instead of secheduling sessions with the assistant, I might simply order the
    same contacts and train my son at home (I'm a long time contact user, so I
    know what to do.)
     
    FKS, Jun 24, 2007
    #7
  8. FKS

    Churie. Guest

    Sigh of relief or ignorance or both accept and try to be practical.
     
    Churie., Jun 24, 2007
    #8
  9. FKS

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    The prescription is not generally given until the fitting process is
    complete, which includes the follow-up visits. Your son cannot have a
    follow-up visit unless he has been able to take the lenses home and
    wear them, and he won't be permitted to take them home until he can
    handle them. There is no use arguing about this situation, and it
    appears as though your son is just not ready for contact lenses. Why
    are you forcing the issue?

    There are things you can do with your son at home, including teaching
    him how to hold his eyes open and touch his eyes.

    DrG
     
    Dr. Leukoma, Jun 24, 2007
    #9
  10. don't give up yet on trying the contacts - he'll eventually get the
    hang of it.
    if at the ophthalmologists office it doesn't work out try going
    elsewhere for another trial/fitiing.
     
    michael toulch, Jun 24, 2007
    #10
  11. FKS

    DoctorRick Guest

    I think you are offering advise based solely on your personal
    experience and hearsay from your friend.

    The majority of patients find soft disposable contact lenses to be
    quite comfortable. And that is the whole reason for giving trial
    lenses anyway. A patient can wear lenses for a brief time and then
    decide whether thats what they want to do or not, without buying
    anything first (except the professional services for contact fitting
    and training).
     
    DoctorRick, Jun 24, 2007
    #11
  12. FKS

    Dan Abel Guest

    Thank you for your stupid advice. Many people find them comfortable.
    When I first tried a contact, the doctor asked me how it felt. I
    replied that I couldn't feel a thing. Of course, other people have
    different experiences.


    I'm only surprised that you still have any friends left. I guess they
    are the kind that like this kind of stuff.
     
    Dan Abel, Jun 24, 2007
    #12
  13. FKS

    DarkProtoman Guest

    They are.
     
    DarkProtoman, Jun 24, 2007
    #13
  14. FKS

    The Real Bev Guest

    Moreover, you won't even know if they fit properly until he can wear them
    for a while. Whenever I've been fitted for contacts, it's taken at least a
    dozen iterations to find something that MOSTLY works, and even then the
    results aren't reproducible.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    =====================================================================
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
     
    The Real Bev, Jun 24, 2007
    #14
  15. FKS

    DarkProtoman Guest

    Why does that sound like an ad?
     
    DarkProtoman, Jun 25, 2007
    #15
  16. FKS

    Neil Brooks Guest

    Churie DOES seem to be pimping Zyoptix lasik around here.

    Would he like to divulge an economic interest, by any chance???
     
    Neil Brooks, Jun 25, 2007
    #16
  17. FKS

    Churie. Guest

    Hi
    Im not doing what you had mentioned.This was the reply given to a
    wrong post by Dark Portoman to convert him to Light Portoman.The
    reason being he had recommended Lasik for a twelwe year old,hence the
    post.
     
    Churie., Jun 25, 2007
    #17
  18. FKS

    otisbrown Guest

    This is a typical statement of Neil Brooks:

    1. First attack and insult, then

    2. Accuse of "hidden" economic interests.

    3. And then slather with blather.

    Just one man's opinion.

    Otis
     
    otisbrown, Jun 25, 2007
    #18
  19. LOL
     
    Edwardo Alphonse Elric, Jun 25, 2007
    #19
  20. FKS

    Neil Brooks Guest

    Actually, Otis, I seek to understand.

    Would you mind answering a few questions for me, please?

    1. There seems to be a great deal of evidence that primates have
    widely differing visual systems. How is it that you feel so secure in
    saying that "all primate eyes" behave similarly ... in ANY regard?

    2. In these monkey studies that you reference, isn't it true that
    the SAME STUDIES showed that, with even BRIEF periods away from the
    minus lens, the myopia was prevented?

    3. If there was no medical indication that these monkeys needed
    corrective lenses at all, can you be sure that appropriate CORRECTION
    of somebody's REFRACTIVE ERROR will have similar results? If so, how?

    4. You continually claim that a minus lens causes something that
    you call "stair-case myopia." Presuming that you mean that it does
    this in humans, do you have any valid clinical evidence for this
    claim?

    5. You have repeatedly claimed that the Oakley-Young study is
    "proof" of this "stair-case myopia" phenomenon, but Oakley-Young only
    establishes that-in some people-myopia can get worse over time. It
    doesn't even CLAIM that a minus lens CAUSES this. Please explain your
    position.

    6. Also-at least in part, based on the Oakley-Young study-you
    recommend that people use plus lenses to prevent myopia. Are you
    aware that the only people in the Oakley-Young study for whom plus
    lenses made ANY difference were those with diagnosed "near-point
    esophoria?" This is a convergence disorder. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE
    that the same result is likely with people who DO NOT HAVE this
    convergence disorder?

    7. You claim to have known Donald Rehm, the founder of the
    International Myopia Prevention Association, for some decades. I
    presume that you are familiar with his FDA petition. In it, Mr. Rehm
    states:

    " if we converge without accommodating the appropriate amount,
    or if we accommodate without converging the appropriate amount,
    problems can develop for this small percentage of children such as eye
    fatigue, double vision, or other types of fusion problems. That is,
    the two images can no longer be fused together without discomfort.
    Normal binocular vision is interfered with."

    Is there a valid reason why you have not attempted to make people
    aware of these SERIOUS risks of unprescribed plus lenses?

    8. You continually cite Fred Deakins as a (questionable) success
    story. Do you think it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Deakins
    is--in truth--myopic, that he is trying to sell a $40.00 product, and
    that his "testimonial" is used as an inducement to buy this product?

    9. Do you have any economic interest in the product sold by Mr.
    Deakins?

    10. You claimed that you were not selling a book--until, that is,
    I provided links to websites where it WAS being sold for $24.95 (with
    your home address as the "send check to" address). You then claimed
    that the entire book was available for free on the internet--until,
    that its--I pointed out that only approximately four of 14+ chapters
    were on the internet. Would you please clarify whether or not you have
    ever received money for a copy of your book, "How to avoid
    nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior?" If
    so, please state how many copies you have sold, and when the last copy
    was sold. If not, please state how long it has been since you
    received any money for this book.

    11. Do you believe that it is dishonest NOT to mention that you
    have a commercial interest in inducing people to visit your website?

    12. Presuming that you understand the difference between
    accommodative spasm (pseudomyopia) and axial-length myopia, would you
    please provide credible proof that either a) pseudomyopia CAUSES
    axial-length myopia, or that b) relieving pseudomyopia REDUCES
    axial-length myopia

    13. You CONSTANTLY make reference to "Second Opinion"
    optometrists--presumably meaning those who share your views. Other
    than the now-infamous Steve Leung, are there ANY OTHER such "second
    opinion optometrists" in the ENTIRE WORLD? Does any of these people
    have any evidence to support the claims that you make? Would you
    please provide it?

    14. Mr. Steve Leung is also trying to sell a book. Do you have
    any economic interest in the book sold by Steve Leung? Do you think
    it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Leung is--in truth--myopic, that
    he is trying to sell a book, and that the "testimonials" on his
    website, and your repeated referrals TO his website are used as
    inducements to sell both your and his book?

    15. Do you feel that it is HONEST NOT TO admit that--even though
    your niece, Joy, NEVER WORE MINUS LENSES, and DID USE PLUS LENSES, she
    is, at this time, a myope with a restricted driver's license?
    [http://www.chinamyopia.org/otis &joy.htm]

    16. I have posted, many times, links to the actual summaries of
    the myopia progression studies that you lie about
    [http://darwin.nap.edu/books/0309040817/html/62.html]. Why do you
    tell people that they WILL SHIFT MYOPIC BY 1.3 DIOPTERS during the
    four years of college when the studies DO NOT SAY THAT AT ALL? Please
    explain your position and provide citations to the appropriate
    studies.

    17. You enjoy citing the Francis Young 1969 Eskimo study, claiming
    that it is "proof that near work causes myopia." Are you aware of the
    contemporary theory that states that, in fact, myopia in the Inuit
    population was a result of the introduction of a "Western" diet high
    in simple carbohydrates (junk food)?
    http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/myopia.html
    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2120

    18. You enjoy using the term "closed-loop feedback system" to
    describe
    your concept of the "dynamic eye," yet (see question #3) the following
    is
    a much BETTER representation of a closed-loop feedback system:

    Think of your home's oven as an analogy.

    You set the thermostat for 350 degrees (F).

    If the oven is already at 275F, then the thermostat will signal an
    INcrease in temperature.

    If the oven is already at 425F, then the thermostat will signal a
    DEcrease in temperature.

    IF, however, the oven is already at 350F -- the desired temperature
    --
    then the thermostat will not signal any change.

    Please explain why your position is at variance with this analogy.

    19. You seem to stop by sci.med.vision for the sole purpose of
    "roiling
    the waters--" adding posts designed only to harrass and annoy
    optometrists
    who, universally, do not agree with you.

    You then excerpt--often improperly and with incorrect attributions--
    these conversations on other sites, adding your little 'comments'
    WITHOUT the doctor having any ability to challenge what you say.

    Do you think this is intellectually honest?

    If you are interested in debate, exchange, argument, or discussion,
    wouldn't it be better to actually ANSWER questions directly?

    20. Presuming that your theories are based, at least in large
    part, on the emmetropization process, at what age does this stop in
    humans? In other words: you are recommending a particular therapy to
    halt myopia progression that--based on your arguments--should be
    equally
    effective at REVERSING it. If so, then why are all of its advocates
    (and
    most of its known 'test subjects') myopic?

    This seems to be a bit of a paradox, no?
     
    Neil Brooks, Jun 25, 2007
    #20
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