Color preception, cloudiness, etc...

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by Kory Postma, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    I thought someone in this group could answer a question for me. Why
    is it that when I put my hands over my eyes and then get rid of all of
    the light getting into them, and then close my eyes, why do I still
    see a lot of colors and also why do I see like big clouds of grey
    floating by. It seems that if I eliminate all light going into my
    eyes I should not be able to see anything, why is it that I am seeing
    these things? Could it be like infrared or UV coming through my
    hands?

    Thanks in advance
    Kory and Sandra
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 28, 2003
    #1
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  2. Kory Postma

    Han Sibot Guest

    I was unable to see your visual effect myself. May be you could tell if the
    visual effect disappears after some time; then it is probably a vivid after
    image. If it is not transient: visible light is transmitted diffusely
    through the skin layers and through the tissue fat under the skin, and red
    is transmitted better than blue. For example, I can see the flash light of a
    camera 'through' my hands, and that light is red. Near infrared is
    transmitted even better, but it is invisible because the dictionary say so.
     
    Han Sibot, Jul 28, 2003
    #2
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  3. Kory Postma

    Han Sibot Guest

    Hmm. You could make me happy if the images somehow resemble a full moon.
    (refers to previous posting, Juliana vision) :)
     
    Han Sibot, Jul 28, 2003
    #3
  4. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Well maybe it would make more sense. If you wear glasses could you
    close your eyes and put your hands over your eyes (I am not applying
    pressure to my eyeball though), and then do you see everything black?
    Without any haziness whatsoever? Someone told me it ususally occurs
    with those who wear glasses though and I was wondering if someone here
    could explain it.
    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 29, 2003
    #4
  5. Kory Postma

    Dr Judy Guest

    Even if IR or UV was coming through, your visual system would not detect
    them. If you are pressing on the eyes at all, the mechanical pressure on the
    retina will stimulate the light sensing cells and unformed patterns will be
    "seen".

    The visual system does not like to see nothing and will generate random
    patterns when there is no light stimulas. This is similar to the phantom
    pain that amputees feel from missing limbs and is a problem for some blind
    people. I have one patient who lost all sight following a car accident.
    She suffers so much from this phantom sight she is unable to sleep and needs
    to take a sedative at bedtime.

    Dr Judy
     
    Dr Judy, Jul 29, 2003
    #5
  6. Kory Postma

    Han Sibot Guest

    Let me be your slave in this experiment. I took off my glasses, -6, and in
    the dark I put my hands over my eyes. The darkness did not appear black to
    me, rather dark grey. Presumably that is because a dark area appears black
    only in the presence of contrasting white. Just like the night sky in winter
    appears black due to the white stars, and just like print appears black due
    to the white paper.

    The kaleidoscope and the floating colored patterns make me think you are
    referring to 'phosphenes', the patterns that can sometimes be seen as well
    by eye rubbing and other stimuli. This keyword will help you find similar
    descriptions, although no explanation unfortunately.
     
    Han Sibot, Jul 29, 2003
    #6
  7. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    The visual system including the brain? Could I be imagining it?
    Could it affect my daily vision?
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 29, 2003
    #7
  8. Kory Postma

    Han Sibot Guest

    Han Sibot, Jul 29, 2003
    #8
  9. Kory Postma

    Dr Judy Guest

    The visual system includes the brain. The random patterns are mostly
    generated by the brain, although there is some "noise" in all parts of the
    system.
    Hmmm, what is meant by "imagine". The forms, colours, clouds you were
    seeing do not exist in the real world and are generated by your brain -- is
    that imagination?
    Only if you spend your day staring at a featureless expanse. As long as you
    are looking at something with features, you will not see the patterns.
    These brain generated patterns are a problem for airline pilots who look out
    the plane windows at featureless sky.

    Dr Judy
     
    Dr Judy, Jul 30, 2003
    #9
  10. Kory Postma

    Rishigg Guest

    The idiot has proved himself right.

    --
    "As surely as any soldier ever died on the field, Dr. Bates gave his
    life for a cause, battling against fate, during many years of
    magnificent struggle, when the unending disappointment finally broke in
    hopeless despair. His torch is still burning. There will come some other
    battler, who is fit, and will hold it high until the people who are
    sitting in darkness have seen its great light."
    William B. MacCracken, M.D.
    (1937, Berkeley CA)
     
    Rishigg, Jul 30, 2003
    #10
  11. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Yeah isn't it great Rishi? Doctors agree that the mind will play
    games with your vision. How else could your eyes "get used to the
    glasses", if you mind had nothing to do with your vision?

    But they dismiss the fact that you can train your mind to see better
    and to relax. This doesn't make any sense scientifically, which I am
    a scientist.

    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 30, 2003
    #11
  12. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Well next time I go to the OD (she is a vt), I will ask if she could
    perform Cyclogenic? Sorry what was that again? I will see what she
    says and I will post it here if she can do it. I think it is
    basically looking at the shape of the cornea right?

    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 30, 2003
    #12
  13. Kory Postma

    Han Sibot Guest

    Your words are poetic, and full of reflection :)
     
    Han Sibot, Jul 30, 2003
    #13
  14. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    I'm not sure if he is tlaking about atropine, they were talking baout
    something else, I just can't remember what it was.
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 31, 2003
    #14
  15. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Do they still use atropine for this or something else? How long
    lasting are the effects of atropine?
    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 31, 2003
    #15
  16. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Well I doubt I would even be able to use atropine as using anything,
    drugs, medications, etc is against my beliefs. But who knows, maybe I
    could look up more about it and then I would decide. For all of you
    dependent upon aspirin and crap like that, I have never taken that in
    my entire life.

    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 31, 2003
    #16
  17. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Actually if you read the works of Dr. Weston A. Price D.D.S. you would
    find out that I am totally opposite. I think anyone who is vegan does
    not understand nutrition. (Is it proper to capitalize vegan?)

    Price noted that out of all of the primitive / isolated societies he
    studied that none of them were totally vegetarian. They all ate some
    form of animal product. And those who ate less meat were dominated by
    the tribes who ate more meat.

    Price's work would probably work good with Atkin's diet compared to
    the low-fat craze currently happening.

    So, no I am not vegan nor will I ever be. I actually tell those
    people that they should at least eat fish.

    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 31, 2003
    #17
  18. Kory Postma

    Rishigg Guest

    What we see is that you are in a difficult situation about your eyes.

    What is the pattern in your case?

    A pattern of misery, nothing else.

    And you still believe in these doctors.

    --
    "As surely as any soldier ever died on the field, Dr. Bates gave his
    life for a cause, battling against fate, during many years of
    magnificent struggle, when the unending disappointment finally broke in
    hopeless despair. His torch is still burning. There will come some other
    battler, who is fit, and will hold it high until the people who are
    sitting in darkness have seen its great light."
    William B. MacCracken, M.D.
    (1937, Berkeley CA)
     
    Rishigg, Jul 31, 2003
    #18
  19. Kory Postma

    Kory Postma Guest

    Who says I don't understand optics? I use Bates methods because they
    work for me and everyone else that has tried it (that I personally
    know of). Who says I don't understand nutrition? Have you read the
    works of Dr. Price? They used to be taught at Harvard Medical School,
    back in the early 40's. Only now are medical schools starting to
    teach nutrition again. But what, like one or two classes?

    Anyhow, I think you have no ground to stand upon. Where are you going
    to school anyhow?

    Kory
     
    Kory Postma, Jul 31, 2003
    #19
  20. Kory Postma

    Ray Lilley Guest

    | Well it isn't any after images or anything like that. I do have
    | myopia, if that makes any difference. But shouldn't I be able to see
    | nothing but black? It seems like a kaliedoscope, but not that vivid,
    | just like really blurry colors and kind of like a haze. I am thinking
    | if I cut out all of the light from my eyes, I should see nothing but
    | black.

    Black is not a percievable colour; indeed, it is an abscence of colour.
    Colour is brought about by the emitance of unabsorbable light from a
    particular object. Light is what the visual system needs in order to
    function. It might be said that if you try to focus onto black that you are
    actully inadvertantly reducing the eyes ability to absorb light?

    I was a potholer for ten years, a trip at least once a week for five of
    them. I spent a lot of time in a 'BLACK' environment.

    There has been occasion when I have spent some time alone and in the
    dark. Some of the images I experienced could be considered strong and
    detailed. Meanwhile my auditory system would hear voices amongst the sounds
    of the babbling waters.

    When the real voices come it's hard to know the difference. When their
    lights begin to illuminate my area it's hard to know if I am seeing reality.
    This is after just a few hours alone. Although I knew where I was, and that
    I was alone, my mind created different realities.

    Never at any time was I aware of seeing nothing but black. The pure
    black never existed.

    Regards...

    ....Ray.
     
    Ray Lilley, Aug 7, 2003
    #20
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