Medication Error Rate 45%

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by ironjustice, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    Ah .. comeon .. now .. it can't be THAT .. high ..


    I bet the stocks went down here eh .. from three times a week to once
    a month ..

    Oh yeah .. they did ..

    Anti-Anemia Drug May Improve Quality Of Life For Patients With Severe
    Kidney Disease

    Main Category: Urology / Nephrology News
    Article Date: 19 Oct 2007 - 0:00 PDT

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/86031.php

    If a patient with severe kidney disease took an anti-anemia drug just
    once per month to raise hemoglobin concentration his/her quality of
    life could be significantly improved. According to an article in the
    medical journal The Lancet this simplified anemia management appears
    to give similar results to conventional therapy for treating anemia,
    which involves much more frequent use of a synthetic form of human
    erythropoietin (epoetin) the promotes red-blood cell production.

    "compared the treatment to epoetin treatment which was administered up
    to three times per week - for hemoglobin control in hemodialysis
    patients."

    Treatment with epoetin requires at least weekly administration,
    changes of dose, and careful monitoring of hemoglobin concentrations.

    Dr Nathan Levin, Renal Research Institute, New York, USA, and team
    looked at how effective a long-acting erythropoieses-stimulating agent
    variant of epoetin (methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta) might be
    when administered intravenously at two or four week intervals, and
    compared the treatment to epoetin treatment which was administered up
    to three times per week - for hemoglobin control in hemodialysis
    patients.

    In this study, all the 673 patients received conventional epoetin
    treatment to start with - all the patients were from Europe and North
    America. Four weeks into the study one third of them received methoxy
    polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta once every two weeks, another third
    received methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta once every four
    weeks, while the other third continued being given conventional
    epoetin treatment for the rest of the trial.

    Hemoglobin concentrations, which were recorded at baseline, were
    regularly monitored throughout a 42 week period. The researchers found
    that those being given methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin either once
    every two weeks or every four weeks had similar hemoglobin
    concentrations to those who continued having a three-times-a-week
    regime of epoetin treatment during the whole study. Adverse outcomes
    were similar in all the three groups.

    "Errors with medication occur at an unacceptably high rate of 45%.
    Extrapolation to about 246 000 haemodialysis patients in the USA
    suggests that 111 000 dose errors could happen every month. Treatment
    with methoxy poly-ethylene glycol-epoetin beta every 4 weeks would
    need only 13 doses per year, compared with 52 - 156 doses with
    conventional epoetin, and would therefore allow fewer opportunities
    for error. Since our findings show that hemoglobin can be controlled
    in all dialysis patients with methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta
    given every 4 weeks, we advise that this drug should be introduced as
    an option to epoetin for simplified anemia management," Dr Levin
    explained.

    Accompanying Comment

    "Before we can concur on a precise clinical role for this molecule, we
    need to explore issues other than simply the non-inferiority with
    other epoetins to reach certain unvalidated surrogates. Different does
    and molecular characteristics of epoetins may affect patient-level
    endpoints, independent of achieved hemoglobin. When these issues are
    examined, we might be truly confident that a newer molecule is non-
    inferior to existing ones," Dr Rowan Walker, Royal Melbourne Hospital
    and Monash University Alfred Hospital, Melbourne, Australia, and Dr
    Giovanni Strippoli, University of Sydney, Australia, and Mario Negri
    Sud Consortium, Chieti, Italy, wrote in an Accompanying Comment.

    "Intravenous methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta for haemoglobin
    control in patients with chronic kidney disease who are on dialysis"
    N W Levin and others

    "A pegylated epoetin in anaemia of renal disease: non-inferiority for
    an unvalidated surrogate"
    R G Walker, G F M Strippoli

    The Lancet Volume 370 · Number 9596 · October 20-26, 2007
    www.thelancet.com


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    ironjustice, Oct 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    The .. paradox to THEM .. here is ... ? .. ? .. ? .. it you bloodlet
    someone his epo goes up four times ..

    THAT is WHY they DON'T .. bloodlet .. because .. "they're already
    anemic" ..

    Believe it .. or .. not ..

    So the take home message here is .. ? .. only a low dose once a month
    of epo is REALLY needed without iron and a minor bloodletting will
    should accomplish this .. because ..?

    They didn't have to give them iron and therefore proving there IS iron
    present and therefore giving credence to the blunted epo production
    BECAUSE the iron IS .. present ..


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    Tom


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    ironjustice, Oct 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    Pharm Res. 2007 Sep;24(9):1653-9. Epub 2007 Apr 25. Links
    Increased erythropoietin elimination in fetal sheep following chronic
    phlebotomy.
    Freise KJ, Widness JA, Segar JL, Schmidt RL, Veng-Pedersen P.
    College of Pharmacy, The University of Iowa, 115 S. Grand Ave, Iowa
    City, Iowa 52242, USA.

    PURPOSE:
    To determine by pharmacokinetic (PK) means the role of erythropoietin-
    receptor (EPO-R) upregulation in fetuses on the elimination of
    erythropoietin (EPO).
    MATERIALS AND METHODS:
    Six fetal sheep were catheterized at a gestational age of 125-127 days
    and phlebotomized daily for 6 days. Paired tracer PK studies using
    recombinant human EPO (rHuEPO) were conducted in the sheep fetuses at
    baseline and post-phlebotomy, 7 days later. A PK model with Michaelis-
    Menten elimination was simultaneously fit to the PK data at baseline
    and post-phlebotomy for each fetus.
    RESULTS:
    Daily phlebotomies reduced the hemoglobin levels from baseline values
    of 10.8 (5%) (mean (C.V.)) g/dl to a nadir of 4.5 (17%) g/dl post-
    phlebotomy. The endogenous EPO concentration rapidly increased after
    the first phlebotomy and remained elevated, although variable,
    thereafter. The Michaelis-Menten maximal rHuEPO elimination rate
    parameter, V(max), was significantly greater post-phlebotomy than at
    baseline (p < 0.05), increasing 1.31 fold. The fetal baseline "linear"
    clearance at very low concentrations of rHuEPO was determined to be
    117 ml/kg/h, similar to that determined in newborn sheep but 2-3 fold
    higher than that determined in adult sheep.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    The observed increase in V(max) is consistent with an up-regulation of
    EPO-R due to a positive feedback resulting from the phlebotomy-induced
    anemia.

    PMID: 17457660 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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    ironjustice, Oct 19, 2007
    #3
  4. ironjustice

    Guest Guest

    The .. paradox to THEM .. here is ... ? .. ? .. ? .. it you bloodlet
    someone his epo goes up four times ..


    so again....epo will NOT go up if the person has SEVERE kidney disease...

    it will go up in the face of anemia in those with good kidneys...BUT it
    takes about 6 weeks to build red blood cells in the marrow....

    so you show up in an ER having lost half your blood...can you wait 6 weeks
    ....course not

    the other uses for exogenous epo..ie maybe in chemo patients..is necessary
    because the bone marrow cannot replace the red cells fast enuf...(perhaps
    because the bone marrow is either diseased or function suppressed)

    bottom line Tommy....you quoted from a source entitled "severe kidney
    disease"....thus...you obviously don't understand the physiology of the
    kidneys...

    not suprising



    ahhhh...not so fast tommy boy

    your reference quotes "patients with SEVERE kidney disease"

    what is the primary source of endogenous epo?? the kidneys...tho a tiny bit
    comes from the liver

    SOOOO...folks with SEVERE kidney disease do NOT have the ability to secrete
    more..if any epo is the face of anemia...ie why the exogenous injections of
    epo for SEVERE renal failure..ie those on dialysis etc...became necessary in
    the first place

    starting in 1970 I worked with dialysis patients...SEVERE kidney disease(and
    BTW many on dialysis have NO kidneys..either removed..never functioned
    etc)....

    and guess what their primary blood related problem was...anemia...not
    uncommon for these poor folks to have hematocrits of 9 or so (hematocrit is
    normally in the neighborhood of 30-40)...

    so what did we do in the early 70's...we transfused...simply so these poor
    folks had the energy to get to the bathroom....

    and YES they did develop iron overload from the transfusions.....

    voila...we started using (via the dialysis machine)...the iron chelating
    drug...

    yet they still were anemic

    voila....epo was sythenized...."recombinant" is the word....we would give
    it...2..then 3 times a week...and voila ...their crits were in the normal
    range and NOOOO iron overload as they didn't need nor get transfusions



    THAT is WHY they DON'T .. bloodlet .. because .. "they're already
    anemic" ..

    Believe it .. or .. not ..

    So the take home message here is .. ? .. only a low dose once a month
    of epo is REALLY needed without iron and a minor bloodletting will
    should accomplish this .. because ..?

    They didn't have to give them iron and therefore proving there IS iron
    present and therefore giving credence to the blunted epo production
    BECAUSE the iron IS .. present ..


    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
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    Man Is A Herbivore!
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    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
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    Guest, Oct 20, 2007
    #4
  5. ironjustice

    Zetsu Guest

    Is man really born to be a herbivore or vegetarians?

    I don't know, but me and my friends were having a massive argument
    about it. One of my friends who is anti-vegetarian said that meat
    TASTES GOOD and so that must mean that humans were meant to eat meat.
    I said that vegetables are more suited for the human body. It was a
    really good debate and lasted a whole afternoon.
     
    Zetsu, Oct 21, 2007
    #5
  6. ironjustice

    TheGuffster Guest

    Look up vitamin b12.
     
    TheGuffster, Oct 21, 2007
    #6
  7. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    AS .. if .. bloodletting has been .. tried .. to SEE .. if as you
    say .. "it doesn't go up" ..

    Give me a cite ..

    Well .. seeing that the marker for 'anemia' .. has been lowered to ..
    six to seven .. I doubt if this has been tested .. SEEING the marker
    KILLING kidney patients IN the news .. leading to massive decrease in
    stock prices OF .. epoetin .. would lead one to believe the marker FOR
    anemia USED by .. you and your ILK .. has been .. of .. poor choice.

    By the way .. 6 weeks one might call a .. period of
    **convalescence** .. as opposed to "shoot em up and ship em out" ..

    Nooo .. YOU and your ILK .. transfuse him and he dies .. in a short
    time .. when one looks AT the .. **long term** .. OF .. that self
    same .. "presenter at ICU" ..

    Need a cite .. ?
    because the bone marrow is either diseased or function suppressed) <<

    Is that right ..

    In the face of the MOST recent studies which show INCREASED death rate
    and shorter time on Earth .. BY .. using epoetin in those chemo
    patients .. means .. ? .. ? .. ?

    Count the dead bodies .. and it means YOU .. are .. wrong.

    JUST like the research shows ..

    AGAIN need a .. cite .. ?
    kidneys...not suprising ahhhh...not so fast tommy boy
    your reference quotes "patients with SEVERE kidney disease"
    what is the primary source of endogenous epo?? the kidneys...tho a
    tiny bit
    comes from the liver <<

    There's other .. sources ..
    YOU .. should try to keep up ..
    epo for SEVERE renal failure..ie those on dialysis etc...became
    necessary in
    the first place <<

    Actually it is the iron blunting the epoetin .. production.

    You didn't write that .. down .. ?

    Oh .. so since we KNOW iron destroys the kidneys .. gangrene in the
    baby BEFORE he / she even LEAVES the womb DUE TO .. lack of blood
    flow .. means .. something to ME .. other than the fact YOU and your
    ILK .. were / are the ones who CAUSED the thick blood to destroy the
    kidneys which .. selfconfessed .. GAVE you your JOB .. for quite some
    time .. ?
    normally in the neighborhood of 30-40)... <<

    Well seeing that you SHOOT for 13.5 and have high rates of death ..
    means .. what .. ?

    You should be congratulated .. ?

    BULL .. so you could save your .. workload .. and NOT have to
    bedpan .. this sick poor person ..

    EVIDENCED by the .. charts ..

    THIS person you have transfused is .. DEAD .. in the future .. as
    OPPOSED to the person who was NOT transfused.

    NEED A CITE .. ??

    How many transfusions are we talking .. here ..

    A couple of pints of blood aren't going to cause iron overload .. it
    is the VOLUME .. IE: hyperviscosity .. which kills them ..
    it...2..then 3 times a week...and voila ...their crits were in the
    normal range and NOOOO iron overload as they didn't need nor get
    transfusions <<

    I'm not sure who you are even working with here ..
    kidneylessdeafdumbblindquadrapelegicdiabeticcancerriddendystrophicdownsyndromeporphyriticlupspatients ..
    or simply one who is malnurished ..

    But since all of the above .. were CAUSED by YOU and your ILK .. I
    suppose .. I wouldn't really care because they are NOT .. the
    ordinary .. they are those .. as you said .. might have every friggin
    receptor in their bodies already FRIED by something you've ALREADY
    given them .. and the rest simply cut out and thrown away .. and
    replaced .. "do you have the money" .. ?

    Sooo .. no .. bloodletting has NEVER been tested .. or .. has
    it .. ? ..

    YES .. it .. has .. and it LEADS to increased red blood cell
    production ..

    Sooo what again are you doing on this .. thread .. ?


    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 21, 2007
    #7
  8. ironjustice

    Guest Guest

    AS .. if .. bloodletting has been .. tried .. to SEE .. if as you
    say .. "it doesn't go up" ..

    Give me a cite ..

    Well .. seeing that the marker for 'anemia' .. has been lowered to ..
    six to seven ..

    6 or 7 is the HEMOGLOBIN number...I referred to HEMATOCRIT (since we were
    able to easily test HCT).....obviously you do not know that they are
    different measurements....ie...if one has a HCT of say....11....their Hgb
    likely would be 5 or less



    I doubt if this has been tested .. SEEING the marker
    KILLING kidney patients IN the news .. leading to massive decrease in
    stock prices OF .. epoetin .. would lead one to believe the marker FOR
    anemia USED by .. you and your ILK .. has been .. of .. poor choice.

    By the way .. 6 weeks one might call a .. period of
    **convalescence** .. as opposed to "shoot em up and ship em out" ..

    Nooo .. YOU and your ILK .. transfuse him and he dies .. in a short
    time .. when one looks AT the .. **long term** .. OF .. that self
    same .. "presenter at ICU" .


    funny....I worked in the dialysis field for oh...18 years....and most of our
    patients ...lived upwards of 10 YEARS....many lived 15 or 20....could give
    you the cites....

    Need a cite .. ?
    because the bone marrow is either diseased or function suppressed) <<

    Is that right ..

    In the face of the MOST recent studies which show INCREASED death rate
    and shorter time on Earth .. BY .. using epoetin in those chemo
    patients .. means .. ? .. ? .. ?


    have no clue what you mean here....since as usual you mushed your
    facts.....it DOES take a healthy bone marrow about 6 weeks to make new
    cells....

    in chemo patients....well..did you ever think that it was the underlying
    malignancy that killed the person?? epo in chemo IS only used if one has a
    cancer



    Count the dead bodies .. and it means YOU .. are .. wrong.

    JUST like the research shows ..

    AGAIN need a .. cite .. ?
    kidneys...not suprising ahhhh...not so fast tommy boy
    your reference quotes "patients with SEVERE kidney disease"
    what is the primary source of endogenous epo?? the kidneys...tho a
    tiny bit
    comes from the liver <<

    There's other .. sources ..
    YOU .. should try to keep up ..


    yep..I mentioned that the liver produced a tad...but healthy functioning
    kidneys produce the majority....look it up(majority I mean)


    epo for SEVERE renal failure..ie those on dialysis etc...became
    necessary in
    the first place <<

    Actually it is the iron blunting the epoetin .. production.


    no .....in severe renal failure...even prior to receiving ANY blood or iron
    (and long before epo was available).....it is the diseased kidneys



    You didn't write that .. down .. ?

    Oh .. so since we KNOW iron destroys the kidneys .. gangrene in the
    baby BEFORE he / she even LEAVES the womb DUE TO .. lack of blood
    flow .. means .. something to ME .. other than the fact YOU and your
    ILK .. were / are the ones who CAUSED the thick blood to destroy the
    kidneys which .. selfconfessed .. GAVE you your JOB .. for quite some
    time .. ?


    you are truly an imbecile...who has NO qualifications in science or
    medicine...and you argue with a professional???

    tell me Tomster....do you think IRON is the ONLY cause of kidney failure??
    well yeah..you probably do...
    if you can spell nephrology...find yourself a good text...
    how about glomerulonephritis....chronic pyelonephritis..polycysitic kidneys
    (which is genetic)..long standing diabetes ...and hypertension are amongst
    the leading cause of kidney failure..
    interstitial nephritis.. etc etc...

    but YOU profess that the few mgm of iron women receive in prenatal vits is
    the culprit.....ah....interesting ..


    normally in the neighborhood of 30-40)... <<

    Well seeing that you SHOOT for 13.5 and have high rates of death ..
    means .. what .. ?


    again....hematocrit of 13.5 ....NOT hemoglobin of 13.......now tell me again
    the difference



    You should be congratulated .. ?

    BULL .. so you could save your .. workload .. and NOT have to
    bedpan .. this sick poor person ..



    yep...I personally went around the world and destroyed everyone's kidneys so
    I had a job?? what a stupid statement



    EVIDENCED by the .. charts ..

    THIS person you have transfused is .. DEAD .. in the future .. as
    OPPOSED to the person who was NOT transfused.


    yep...we are all "dead in the future" Tommy.....just try walking or driving
    with a hematocrit of say 10 or a hemoglobin of say 5....and let me know how
    you feel....



    NEED A CITE .. ??

    How many transfusions are we talking .. here ..

    A couple of pints of blood aren't going to cause iron overload .. it
    is the VOLUME .. IE: hyperviscosity .. which kills them ..


    you haven't seen "thin blood" like the blood of kidney patients as it
    courses thru the transparent tubing of an artificial kidney....it is so
    short on red cells that it is pale...

    and BTW I didn't say "a couple of pints of blood".....what you ignore is
    that prior to epo for dialysis patients...the majority of patients were
    transfused two pints once or twice a MONTH...and since they lived for many
    YEARS...yep iron ironload did in fact occur...

    hmmm...then comes DFO which we gave via the artificial kidney to CHELATE the
    excess iron...guess what...they still needed further transfusions...


    it...2..then 3 times a week...and voila ...their crits were in the
    normal range and NOOOO iron overload as they didn't need nor get
    transfusions <<

    I'm not sure who you are even working with here ..
    kidneylessdeafdumbblindquadrapelegicdiabeticcancerriddendystrophicdownsyndromeporphyriticlupspatients
    ...
    or simply one who is malnurished ..


    ah yes...right..malnourished?? hmmm...ones who made no urine..had glomerular
    filtration rates of oh...maybe 12 (look it up...normal GFR is over
    100)....creatinines of oh....7 or 8...(normal is less than 1.5 for men
    ....1.0 for females)

    not sure about the rest of your run on sentence about quads..cancer ridden
    dystrophic downs...etc...as no tommy boy....

    that wasn't the population in chronic dialysis units...

    But since all of the above .. were CAUSED by YOU and your ILK .. I
    suppose .. I wouldn't really care because they are NOT .. the
    ordinary .. they are those .. as you said .. might have every friggin
    receptor in their bodies already FRIED by something you've ALREADY
    given them .. and the rest simply cut out and thrown away .. and
    replaced .. "do you have the money" .. ?


    ok...let's try again...write this down....people did not START dialysis
    until their kidney function was nil...so...no...whatever we did in the unit
    ...ie give blood or epo...did not CAUSE their renal failure



    Sooo .. no .. bloodletting has NEVER been tested .. or .. has
    it .. ? ..

    YES .. it .. has .. and it LEADS to increased red blood cell
    production ..


    one more time....the production of endogenous (do you know what that
    means??) erythropoetin does NOT occur in "severe renal failure" patients...

    you mr tomster are amongst the world's most medically ignorant folk



    Sooo what again are you doing on this .. thread .. ?

    oh...do you own it"".......




    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    Guest, Oct 21, 2007
    #8
  9. ironjustice

    Hawki Guest

    yep.....like stem cells in the fetus...

    name another significant source
     
    Hawki, Oct 21, 2007
    #9
  10. ironjustice

    Vernono O Guest

    Live in Europe or the arctic in the winter any time up to the 1500s.
    Live on vegetables.

    ha ha ha ha h aha

    Man is an omnivore.
    It is nearly impossible to get all the necessary oils without eating meat.
    No, they didn't have healthfood stores, even in the 1800s.

    Vegans have a 20 year less life expectancy.
     
    Vernono O, Oct 21, 2007
    #10
  11. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    you are truly an imbecile...who has NO qualifications in science or
    medicine...and you argue with a professional??? <<

    You don't even know fish is meat .. you don't even know benzene is
    **the** chemical they use to test for MCS .. you don't even know
    aminoglycocides have deafened half of the Asian .. world ..

    Yes .. I believe you've .. mentioned .. you ARE a .. "medical
    professional" .. and who I might add .. has NOW been shown to be
    killing MILLIONS of children in underdeveloped countries , who have
    been killing our women , who have been killing kidney patients in
    massive numbers by overprescribing epoetin AT that very dose you rave
    about .. 2-3 times a week .. and who have been showing INCREASED death
    in cancer patients .. which .. you .. "haven't even heard about" ..

    Soooo .. unless you are REALLY , really .. stupid .. you might
    understand WHY .. yes .. I .. **dare** argue with a person guilty of
    manslaughter ON .. a .. **massive** scale .. and I might even get in
    their face .. a little .. bit ..

    But that is just .. me ..

    BUT .. in YOUR .. case .. which I believe might be .. kinda ..
    unique .. because I cannot fathom everyone in the medicasl profession
    to BE .. quite as .. **stupid** as .. yourself ..

    But with 45% medication errors .. it is pretty hard NOT .. to come to
    that conclusion ..

    That would make ME .. stupid ..

    And .. I .. ain't .. stupid ..

    If you need a cite for any of the above .. just you ask .. y'hear ..


    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 21, 2007
    #11
  12. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    Europe or the arctic in the winter any time up to the 1500s.
    Live on vegetables. <<

    I'm beginning to believe more of the frugivore / herbivore .. type of
    deal ..

    Just grab the fruits and vegetables that grow .. abundantly ..
    around ..

    But in our society that doesn't happen ..

    BUT .. in a society where food is abundant .. ?
    The simple combination of foods EASILY meets the requirements ..
    recommended by .. the famous Danish
    dietician .. Dr M. Hindbede
    Now who is right .. ?
    The RDA for protein is four times higher than what the famous Danish
    dietician .. Dr M. Hindbede says a 150-lb. man can live on .. ?

    "Dr M. Hindbede, famous Danish dietician, says a 150-lb. man can live
    on half an oz. of protein a day"


    http://www.whale.to/a/b/pearson.html


    The RDA for protein is .8 gm/kg bodyweight, or 56 gm for a 154 lb
    male.


    http://www.time-to-run.com/nutrition/rda.htm


    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 21, 2007
    #12
  13. ironjustice

    Neil Brooks Guest

    I can't imagine this is of any interest to the readers of
    sci.med.vision.

    How about dropping all the cross-posted NG's??
     
    Neil Brooks, Oct 21, 2007
    #13
  14. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    I can't imagine this is of any interest to the readers of
    sci.med.vision.
    How about dropping all the cross-posted NG's?? <<

    You don't think diabetic retinopathy .. fits .. in sci.med.vision ..

    I suppose you are a member of the medical profession .. ?

    Do you know anything about the pressure ... other than what you read
    in books .. ?

    Do you know what increased pressure in the eye leads to .. ?

    Do you know what happens to the eye in high altitude sickness .. ?

    Here .. check it out ..

    Eye - High-altitude flight retinopathyVision progressively improved
    spontaneously and 6 weeks later, her vision ... High-altitude
    retinopathy (HAR) can occur without altitude sickness (or acute ...
    www.nature.com/eye/journal/v18/n6/full/6700730a.html

    Get back to me if you want me to explain how erythrocytosis ..
    increased red blood cell production leads to increased PRESSURE in the
    eye and causes .. retinopathy ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 21, 2007
    #14
  15. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    I can't imagine this is of any interest to the readers of
    sci.med.vision.

    How about dropping all the cross-posted NG's?? <<

    I really can't understand WHY you wouldn't be GETTING a higher rate of
    heart patients and diabetics in your practices than .. normal .. and
    cancer patients .. WHEN they have been giving them so .. MUCH ..
    epoetin .

    Oh yeah .. you do ..

    I wonder what the rate of eye problems is in an .. aircrew .. ?

    Do you treat .. pilots and the like .. ?

    Oh yeah .. we already know they have a higher than normal rate of ..
    eye problems ..

    http://www.cushings-help.com/csr.htm

    For example, airline pilots suffer from CSR - Central Serous
    Retinopathy at a high rate ..
    --------------------------------

    CSR - Central Serous Retinopathy and a search of altitude brings
    up .. what .. ?

    --------------------------------
    http://tinyurl.com/24wuzr

    Retinal Injuries If a severe injury to the eye has occurred, with
    definite or suspected perforation of the globe, any aerial transport
    should be conducted at a cabin altitude of 4,000 ft or less

    ---------------------------------
    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980415ap/harris.html

    Other Altitude-Related Disease

    Table 42,3 describes other altitude-related disorders and their
    treatment.

    High-altitude retinopathy is related to hypoxia17 and is manifested by
    cotton-wool exudates, tortuosity and dilation of retinal veins and
    scotomata. It commonly occurs at altitudes over 5,000 m (16,000 ft),
    is usually asymptomatic and usually resolves after one to two weeks,
    even if the patient remains at altitude.1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    I wonder why that could be .. ? .. pressure .. ?
    It might be 'cause they haul you at 4000 ft with an eye problem .. ?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/medicine_health/report-74168..html

    Model can predict risk of glaucoma in patients with elevated eye
    pressure.
    Test indicates how aggressive eye doctors should be with treatment and
    testing.

    ---------------------------------


    The Journal of the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health, Vol.
    122, No. 1, 14-20 (2002)
    DOI: 10.1177/146642400212200109
    © 2002 Royal Society for the Promotion of Health

    Sickness at high altitude: a literature review
    G Brundrett
    Cooks Hill, Kingswood, Frodsham WA6 6JT, England,


    When some individuals spend just a few hours at low atmospheric
    pressure above 1,500 m (5,000 ft) - such as when climbing a mountain
    or flying in a plane at high altitude - they become ill. Altitude
    sickness studies originally concentrated on life-threatening illnesses
    which beset determined and athletic climbers at extreme altitudes. In
    recent years, however, research attention is moving towards milder
    forms of sickness reported by a significant proportion of the growing
    number of visitors to mountain and ski resorts at more moderate
    altitude. Some of this research is also relevant in understanding the
    problems experienced by passengers in newer planes that fly at a
    significantly higher equivalent cabin altitude, i.e. 2,440 m (8,000
    ft), than earlier designs. Engineering solutions - such as enriched
    oxygen in enclosed spaces at altitude, or in the case of aircraft,
    lower cabin altitudes - are possible, but for an economic assessment
    to be realistic an engineer needs to identify the scale of the problem
    and to understand the factors determining susceptibility.

    This review concentrates on the problems of mountain sickness in the
    ordinary population at altitudes of around 3,000 m (10,000 ft); this
    is a problem of growing concern as ski resorts develop, mountain
    trekking increases in popularity, and as higher altitude cabin
    pressures are achieved in aircraft.


    Key Words: Acute mountain sickness (AMS) · aircraft cabin altitude ·
    hypoxia · oedema · oxygen enrichment
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    So yes .. sir .. viscosity .. and / or .. epoetin dosage and usage is
    related to sci.med.vision .. because .. ?

    Epoetin is USED .. to .. 'create' increased red blood cell production.

    Which is exactly why high altitude sickness .. occurs .. according
    to .. experts .. the polycythemia / increased red blood cell
    production leads to increased pressure .. in the tiny little blood
    carrying apparatus of our .. eye ..

    Either leakage then occurs or necrosis due to lack of blood flow or ..
    retinal hemorrhage to create MORE vessels to not let the eye tissue ..
    die ..

    Angiogenesis ..

    Write that .. down ..

    http://www.med.unibs.it/~airc/angiogen.html

    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 22, 2007
    #15
  16. ironjustice

    Guest Guest

    snip

    funny how rusty butt drops a subject...like iron causing kidney
    disease....when he knows he is full of sh.it...

    not that his approach is anything new
     
    Guest, Oct 25, 2007
    #16
  17. ironjustice

    ironjustice Guest

    funny how rusty butt drops a subject...like iron causing kidney
    disease....when he knows he is full of sh.it...
    <<

    The liver .. produces .. epoetin ..

    If you don't .. KNOW .. that .. then that means .. ?
    WHY would I .. KEEP .. talking to you .. ?

    You got something to .. add .. ?

    Obviously NOT .. simply because you don't even KNOW where epoetin
    IS .. produced ... AND you ask ME .. to tell you ..

    Sooo ... you think I .. **care** whether .. YOU .. know or .. not .. ?

    WHY would I .. care .. ?

    You need epoetin .. ?

    You going to USE epoetin .. ?

    Are you THINKING of .. using .. epoetin .. ?

    No to all of the above ..

    YOU are simply a stupid goof / "medical professional" who .. **acts**
    like she knows something .. but .. when pressed .. folds like a
    cheap .. suit ..

    So rather than to attempt to .. antagonize .. and show your stupidity
    even .. MORE .. just take some good advice .. and HIT the FKG ..
    road ..

    Subject IS .. done ..

    Buuuut .. I'm sure you can come up with somebody somewhere who doesn't
    even HAVE a .. liver OR a .. kidney .. maybe you can come up with
    somebody who doesn't have .. an .. organ .. left .. in .. his ..
    body ..

    Eh ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk






    Who loves ya.
    Tom


    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
     
    ironjustice, Oct 25, 2007
    #17
  18. ironjustice

    Guest Guest


    find me a reference that gives the % of epo produced in the liver Tommy
    boyit is atiny tiny amount ...most


    references might say "produced in the FETAL liver....
     
    Guest, Oct 27, 2007
    #18
  19. ironjustice

    Guest Guest



    also define "fetal" for us

    the "fetus" does produce EPO...then at birth the kidneys take over that
    function...



    tommy tommy .......how long will you embarrass yourself by arguing with me??




    not the point tommy boy...

    this "thread" concerns the use of epo in "severe kidney disease"...ie those
    either on dialysis or witht NOOOOO kidney function

    go b ack to first grade and re evaluate this lack of reasoning you
    continually exhibit....

    yea Tommy....many many folks do NOT have kidneys that function...
     
    Guest, Oct 27, 2007
    #19
  20. ironjustice

    Neil Brooks Guest

    I can't imagine this is of any interest to the readers of
    sci.med.vision.

    How about dropping all the cross-posted NG's??
     
    Neil Brooks, Oct 27, 2007
    #20
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