Most durable AR coating for eyeglasses?

Discussion in 'Glasses' started by SQ, Jul 22, 2008.

  1. SQ

    SQ Guest

    I had an el-cheapo Anti-reflective coating that was destroyed after
    about 6 months and exchanged the lenses for a set without AR.

    I was careful about cleaning - use a microfiber cloth, wash them first
    and the coating came off anyway. Thankfully I had warranty.

    Now the eyeglasses I have are most durable but without AR coating, I
    can see their disadvantages. In low light, AR rules, you get more
    clarity and brightness.

    My local optometrist promotes Teflon AR as the best. I just want to
    confirm that they are durable and won't come off after a few months.
    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
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  2. SQ

    Mark A Guest

    Teflon coating is about the same (or slightly less) durability as other
    premium coatings such as Crizale Alize, Zeiss Carat Advantage, HOYA Super
    HiVision, and other premium lens coatings applied by the lens manufacturer.

    The main advantage of the Teflon lens coatings is that they are slightly
    better to the others in terms of having lower reflectance. But according to
    the Teflon Lens Coating website below, some of the other premium lens
    coatings I mentioned above are actually slightly tougher.

    I have Zeiss Carat Advantage and have been very satisfied with the
    Mark A, Jul 22, 2008
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  3. SQ

    SQ Guest

    Thanks for the reply --- sounds most interesting.

    Do you know if Zeiss Carat Advantage is baked on or cold-treated? I
    understand that the higher the temperature, the better it adheres to
    the glass?

    I wonder if my last set of AR was cold-treated (Not sure of the
    method, I heard possibly under UV)
    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
  4. SQ

    SQ Guest

    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
  5. SQ

    Mark A Guest

    The Zeiss Carat Advantage on my lens was baked on at the Zeiss plant in
    Germany where the lens was computer ground from scratch to my Rx (it is the
    custom ground Zeiss Individual progressive lens). Takes about 2 weeks to get
    a Zeiss Individual progressive lenses made and sent back to US (unless they
    have recently set up a plant in the US).

    There are SV completely finished lenses with high quality AR coating
    available from manufacturers. Any of the high end AR coats that I mentioned
    in my previous post are "baked on". They are a bit more durable than the
    Teflon, but the Teflon apparently has less reflections. Personally, with my
    life style, I would go for highest durability.

    The key is to get an AR coat from lab or plant owned by the manufacturer
    where they apply the AR coating. Do not even bother with AR coating applied
    at in in-store lab.

    BTW, Zeiss invented AR coating for glass camera lenses in 1935.
    Mark A, Jul 22, 2008
  6. SQ

    SQ Guest

    Thanks for the informative post. Looks like baked-on AR coating is the
    way to go
    vs. a dip applied coating. I wonder if the latter is what I had.
    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
  7. SQ

    Mark A Guest

    Most likely you had a dip applied coating.

    You need to get a name brand lens made at a lab owned by the manufacturer
    who makes the lens and the AR coating. Many high end lenses only come with
    the factory AR coating (not even available uncoated). A high quality AR
    coating can add about $100 or more to the cost of a lens, with the huge
    markup that most retailers charge. The lens with the AR coating included
    seem to be a better deal.
    Mark A, Jul 22, 2008
  8. SQ

    SQ Guest

    My insurance can cover some of the cost of these lenses, but they are
    still expensive.

    I hear that Crizale Alize adds hydrophobic coating on top of the AR
    coating, making it
    slick and even easier to clean. Browsing the forum, it
    looks like there is no clear consensus on what's the best AR coating.

    Let me ask, does the glass (i.e. plastic) itself make any difference
    clarity-wise? With regards to the Abbe value? I have 1.64 "high
    index" now.
    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
  9. SQ

    Mark A Guest

    Most of the modern high end AR coating I mentioned (including the Zeiss
    Carat Advantage) have a similar "easy to clean" surface. Early AR coatings
    were very difficult to clean without leaving streaks (if you have an old
    camera lens with AR coating you can attest to that).

    Abbe value makes a big difference in the quality of lens (clarity is
    probably not the best term for it, but it is not wrong either). I have never
    heard of a 1.64 index lens (but not saying it does not exist). The common
    lens indexes are below:

    1.50 regular plastic
    1.53 Trivex
    1.59 polycarb (avoid this like the plague - lowest abbe value of any
    commonly dispensed lens material)
    1.66 or 1.67 (depends on lens manufacturer - some are 1.66 and some 1.67)

    Normally, the higher the index, the lower the abbe value. The higher the
    abbe value, the less chromatic aberration. The one exception is polycarb,
    which has the lowest abbe value of any commonly dispensed lens. Abbe value
    is more of an issue if you have a moderate to strong lens power. You may not
    notice any difference between abbe values in a low power lens (plus or

    Most lenses are polycarb (terrible optics, but high tensile strength and
    high impact resistance) or 1.66/1.67. 1.60 is a good choice if you lenses
    will not be too thick for you. Trivex is a good replacement for polycarb
    were safety lenses are needed.

    For the best advice on lens material, please post you exact Rx here. Also,
    it would be good to get the exact manufacturer and lens design your optician
    is suggesting for you (in addition to the lens material). Often times they
    will not like to tell you (and some are so ignorant they don't even know),
    but if they don't tell you, tell them you will take your business elsewhere.
    Mark A, Jul 22, 2008
  10. SQ

    SQ Guest

    Interesting. Of course, I have 1.67 High-Index. I wonder if I should
    go to 1.60 high-index versus 1.67 to get a higher quality lense, with
    better view quality. Or is there not enough difference between 1.60
    and 1.67?

    My myopia is -5.25 Diopters in both eyes.

    I want to get the best possible optical 'picture quality' and AR is a
    step in the right direction towards that. I didn't specifically notice
    that eliminated glare but did notice that it greatly improved view
    quality in twilight and at night. This only became apparent when I got
    a non-AR pair of lenses.

    Also durability of AR coating is a huge issue for me. It's not that I
    am rough with eyeglasses but I do tend to clean them several times per
    day. A poor AR coating will scratch easy and come off eventually,
    which is what happened to my previous pair of lenses. It did offer
    nice view though.
    SQ, Jul 22, 2008
  11. SQ

    Mark A Guest

    It is a mater of aesthetics and weight.

    A 1.67 index lens is thinner and therefore lighter than a 1.60 index lens.
    On a -5.25 this will show up as edge thickness, and is a cosmetic issue with
    some people. But a lighter lens is also important to some people, and it
    "could" keep your frames from slipping off your nose as much if the lens
    where heavier.

    But a 1.60 lens will have better optical quality than a 1.67 lens,
    especially in terms of chromatic aberration (abbe value). Some people are
    more susceptible to chromatic aberration than others.

    Also, a 1.67 lens costs more, but sometimes it is hard to find a lens with
    1.60 index material.

    If you get one of the premium AR coatings put on by the lens manufacturer
    that I already mentioned, I would not worry about AR durability.
    Mark A, Jul 22, 2008
  12. SQ

    vinu02 Guest

    You can try Chemalux AR coating. Its superior quality, high heat
    resistance so there is no peel off or crazing problem.
    You may email your queries at
    vinu02, Sep 13, 2008
  13. SQ

    Salmon Egg Guest

    I tend to be very skeptical when it comes to bragging about coatings.
    While the real secret to the coatings is the technique used to clean
    substrates and deposit materials, vendors end to be cagey about their
    designs and materials. I will send this to yhe address above, but I do
    not expect to get ANY meaningful reply.

    1. Is your design for a particular index of refraction of the
    substrate? What is that?

    2. What are the thicknesses and indexes of the layers deposited
    starting with first one deposited? Material names would be nice but I do
    not expect them.

    3. I presume the deposition is by evaporation. If that is not the case,
    what is the method used?

    4. At what temperature is the deposition made?

    5. What temperature can the coating take?

    6. What tests do you use to check durability?
    Salmon Egg, Sep 14, 2008
  14. SQ


    Feb 3, 2010
    Likes Received:
    the true application of AR coating is done with a process called in chamber ion-assisted vapor deposision it derives from semi-coductor industry. any other questions i
    will gladly answer.
    taynik, Feb 3, 2010
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