Ortho-K, anyone here have experience or knowlege?

This is something that has caught my interest! I have been looking into
it for some time but now im really serious about it. With all the
negative on laser surgury about its risks and complications, plus the
fact im not your "perfect" candidate, lasik is definately not for me. I
have researched this throughtly and conclude it wont work well for me.
Its permaent too so whatever you get, its forever better or worse. I
will save the lecture on lasik here as this isnt really a lasik BB. My
topic in question is Ortho-K! Anyone here have experience or knowlege?


The main concern is the risks of complications due to overnight wear of
the RGP orthoK lenses. Netherless I and most others believe its
considerabily less risky than lasik. Plus if orthoK doesnt work out,
its reversable, lasik your stuck with it and whatever vision it gives
you. One optometrist says hes never gotten more than -4 diopter
correction in anyone with orthoK. This is not an issue for me because I
have only -5(left) -4.5(right) with little, if any regular astigmastim.
Plus due to my presbyopia, its beneficial I leave a little myopia so at
least I can see the computer clearly without reading glasses and only
need reading glasses to read fine print. I may have pseudomyopia so ill
only want to correct my cycoplegic refraction and exercise my eyes to
resolve the pseudomyopia. I may get another cycoplegic refraction after
orthoK to ensure im not overcorrected, this will rule out any latent
hyperopia accomodated. I have a relistic goal of orthoK, see well
enough to be in focus at 2/3 meter which will let me see this computer
monitor clearly sans glasses. I wont need glasses around the house for
the matter. In fact im wearing -3.25 glasses so ill be happy to achieve
this much correction from orthoK then ill only sometimes need distance
glasses.

I am worried about my huge pupils and have been told this may
complicate orthoK ah well as long as the night vision isnt too bad, im
sticking with it. Its temporary so I can cease using orthoK if im not
satisfied for any reason. I need to get an appointment for orthoK and
see what the expert optometrist says. If he says I have litle or no
chance of it working, ill leave things be. If he says I have a
reasonable chance, by all means ill go for it! Itll probably cost like
$1500 but ill try to find a doctor with a partial refund policy, one of
them will give all but $300 back if you turn in the orthoK lenses
within a month(or was it three?)

 

Why not give it a try and report back to the group?

DrG

 

Dear Ace,

Subject: Ortho-K

Ortho-K is expensive, running about
$1,000 to $1,600 -- depending
on the OD.

It is mostly effective for refractive
states of better than -2 diopters,
with perhaps -3 diopters possible.

The effect does not last. Stop
wearing the "retiner" and you
go right bact to you previous
prescription.

Best,

Otis

 

"Why not give it a try and report back to the group?"


my mom thinks its a gimmic that itll work for an hour then ill regress,
she basically doesnt believe in it, but says if I can show her real
experiences here she will change her tune. DrG, can you share some if
you know anyone whos done orthoK or better yet, if you perform it
yourself? Give a summary. How long do the effects last? How much myopia
gets corrected, whats the most myopia youve seen or heard someone get
corrected/reduced? Is there any discomfort initially and long term? How
does it fare for night vision? Does it change your BCVA for better or
worse?



"Ortho-K is expensive, running about
$1,000 to $1,600 -- depending
on the OD."

Thats still 1/3 to 1/4 the price of controversal lasik, a great bargin
compared to lasik. Its also the same price as me getting RGP contacts
but I believe ill be much happier with orthoK than rgp contacts. My
optometrist warned me dust is the enemy, get any in and your in for a
world of pain and must remove the RGP lenses immediately and on the
spot. Theres other things I dont like about them. With orthoK I will be
almost free of glasses!


"It is mostly effective for refractive
states of better than -2 diopters,
with perhaps -3 diopters possible."

diopters very easily, this is where low myopia falls. It will greatly
reduce the pescription of a moderate myope like me. Different people
respond differently but I would think a reduction of -3 diopters should
be doable. I may be -4.5 and -5 but some of it is pseudomyopia. I do
NOT want to correct more than my axial myopia. I do want to be
undercorrected a little so I dont need reading glasses full time. I am
not 8 years old anymore and dont have the accomodative amplitude of
one. How much myopia should I leave? I am thinking between 1 and 2
diopters, less than -1 and ill need reading glasses full time, more
than -2 and my distance vision wont be clear enough. -1.5 is the sweet
spot and is actually the undercorrection presbyopes are happiest with.
If orthoK addresses 3 diopters, ill be -2 and -1.5, a very small amount
of anisometropa and monovision, something I can handle no problem. This
is good enough to reduce my dependancy on glasses by more than 75% and
only need reading glasses for fine print or getting a closeup look,
such as threading a needle.


"The effect does not last. Stop
wearing the "retiner" and you
go right bact to you previous
prescription."

stop wearing glasses and the same problem. I will wear the retainer
lense as often as I need to keep the effects. Its more a good thing its
not permaent in case it doesnt work out for you. With laser surgury
your stuck with it better or worse.

 

Ace,

You and I have traded posts about this before. I don't really think
you are sincere about pursuing orthokeratology, as there is plenty of
information available to indicate that you are at the extreme end of
the range of correction, if not out of range for this modality.
Besides, if you have dry eyes, you shouldn't be sleeping in any kind of
contact lens.

own decisions. Therefore, why should you care what mummee thinks? The
last I heard, you were still trying to convince your daddy that you
needed a good eye exam. You won't get one here.

DrG

 

Yes. Yes, you do.

 

"as there is plenty of
information available to indicate that you are at the extreme end of
the range of correction, if not out of range for this modality."


I do want to be
undercorrected a little so I dont need reading glasses full time. I am
not 8 years old anymore and dont have the accomodative amplitude of
one. How much myopia should I leave? I am thinking between 1 and 2
diopters, less than -1 and ill need reading glasses full time, more
than -2 and my distance vision wont be clear enough. -1.5 is the sweet
spot and is actually the undercorrection presbyopes are happiest with.
If orthoK addresses 3 diopters, ill be -2 and -1.5, a very small amount

of anisometropa and monovision, something I can handle no problem. This

is good enough to reduce my dependancy on glasses by more than 75% and
only need reading glasses for fine print or getting a closeup look,
such as threading a needle.


"You and I have traded posts about this before."


I know, but do you have any knowlege about the following questions?
DrG, can you share some if
you know anyone whos done orthoK or better yet, if you perform it
yourself? Give a summary. How long do the effects last? How much myopia

gets corrected, whats the most myopia youve seen or heard someone get
corrected/reduced? Is there any discomfort initially and long term? How

does it fare for night vision? Does it change your BCVA for better or
worse?


"Besides, if you have dry eyes, you shouldn't be sleeping in any kind
of
contact lens."


I will take a scheimer's test and let the optometrist decide if the
dryness of my eyes is mild enough to be OK for orthoK.


"Therefore, why should you care what mummee thinks?"


Because shes going to pay for it? She knows I need vision correction
and if she knows orthoK will work then I may get that.


"The
last I heard, you were still trying to convince your daddy that you
needed a good eye exam."


Yes one that includes a cycoplegic refraction with a potent cycoplegia
agent.


"Yes. Yes, you do."


Ok good. Do you have any experience? I have some questions, see above.
Tell me everything about orthoK experience, this is what I need to
convinece my parents.

 

You're missing/ignoring my point.

"Yes. Yes, you do" referred to your comment:

Also, for a guy who seems to do an admirable amount of overly
caffeinated research, you seem to be asking some pretty basic
questions about Ortho-K.

Here: http://snipurl.com/kvrj

 

I already searched on google and know about orthoK but what me and my
parents need is personal orthoK experiences or know people with
experiences. We want to push aside the hype and marketing and see how
others react to orthoK and if it really delivers. My parents said if
orthoK was so good, there would be no point in most people getting
laser surgury!

 

Ace, the first rule of internet bulletin boards is that people report
their personal subjective experiences. Someone will post "I hate
orthokeratology. The lenses were a pain, my night vision was terrible,
and I just got fedup with all the mainencance." Someone else will post
"I love orthokeratology. I cannot feel the lenses in my eyes, my
vision is excellent, and I am a happy camper."

What kind of parents would be swayed by a post from someone on the
internet? Surely, not yours.

DrG

 

Unless you get a patient list from doctors (which you won't) and call
those people directly, what you'll get is what's known as a
"self-selecting sample," meaning: the people you'll hear from (if any)
are those who had exceptionally positive, or exceptionally negative
experiences. This is either end of the bell curve. You won't get the
experiences of the masses who are in the middle.

Go see an eye doctor. Find out if you're even a candidate. Refine
your question list based on what that eye doctor says, then come back
to the computer.

Meanwhile: did you see this?

http://www.nei.nih.gov/neitrials/viewStudyWeb.aspx?id=22

 

Beautifully said ;-)

 

Ace,

Please disregard Otis's postings. He is not in the position to give
medical advice since he is not in the medical profession.

Thank you!

Allen

 

Dear Allen,

I do not think "Ace" needs your
"protection".

Did he ask for your protection?

Best,

Otis

 

Does he ask for it? No.

Should he have it, nonetheless? Absolutely.

Everybody needs protection from you, Uncle Otie.

You hurt people ... but you don't care.

You think you save them from the Evil Optometrists ... but you don't.

 

"is that people report their personal subjective experiences."


I want to hear all experiences, both good and bad. I will not be swayed
by bias. Its perfectly normal to have a bad experience for anything be
it glasses, lasik, contacts or something entirely different like buying
a certain brand of cookie and it tastes terriable! I want to see how
orthoK is for them. I will be able to arrive at a general informed
decision.


"What kind of parents would be swayed by a post from someone on the
internet? Surely, not yours."

Where it stands, they know nothing about orthoK and think its just a
gimmic. I told them everything about it and they said if its as good as
I make it out to be, almost everyone would be using orthoK! My mom may
even use orthoK herself if it can correct high myopes(which it cant
currently and may never be able to due to the nature of excess corneal
molding) My sister has shown some interest and even my brother may try
it if it works really well for me. Brother doesnt have much dependance
on glasses but if orthoK is so easy, hey its free vision improvement! I
have some friends that may try orthoK themselves but they too are
skeptical, they need testimonals.



"You won't get the
experiences of the masses who are in the middle."


oh yea? Theres a few hundred lasik experience reports online, some
negetive, some positive, some in between. Ive seen very few orthoK
reports, one negetive the the rest positive. I read an article and its
appearenly popular in children that are shy of glasses but not old
enough for lasik.


"Go see an eye doctor. Find out if you're even a candidate. Refine
your question list based on what that eye doctor says, then come back
to the computer."


will do, but maybe you guys can think of questions I can use to ask the
doc?


"Meanwhile: did you see this?"


Irrevelent, its old tech. Todays orthoK can correct 3 diopters without
a problem, even 4 with a more aggressive approach.

 

Dear Neil,

Please define "Evil Optometrist"

Are they the "second-opinion" optometrists
like Steve Leung? At:

www.chinamyopia.org

Is that it? Are you warning Ace that he should
not be informed of the preventive second-opinion?

Is that it?

Ace has a right to be fully and completely informed
of the second opinion at the threshold (i.e., pseudo-myopia).

The most likely result of Ace being provided with this
preventive information -- would be that he would
reject it. In which case, the stair-case myopia
that he developes (as a result of wearing that
minus all the time) would be his choice and
his responsibility.

But that is the nature of scientific change.

Best,

Otis

 

Dear Neil,

Please define "Evil Optometrist"

Are they the "second-opinion" optometrists
like Steve Leung? At:

www.chinamyopia.org

Is that it? Are you warning Ace that he should
not be informed of the preventive second-opinion?

Is that it?

Ace has a right to be fully and completely informed
of the second opinion at the threshold (i.e., pseudo-myopia).

The most likely result of Ace being provided with this
preventive information -- would be that he would
reject it. In which case, the stair-case myopia
that he developes (as a result of wearing that
minus all the time) would be his choice and
his responsibility.

But that is the nature of scientific change.

Best,

Otis

 

SMV's Best Post of 2005 award is about to go to the Central
Scrutinizer for this gem, directed to Uncle Otie:

The bar is set awfully high, folks, but please feel free to attempt to
surpass this....

"Ferret Bowling." Is that priceless, or what?

Neil
PETA Member ... 'til they read this....

 

Otis,

You did not indicate in your post you were not in the medical profession,
so yes, Ace does need protection since you do not give full disclosure.

Allen