question - eye exercise - does it work?

Discussion in 'Eye-Care' started by Mike Dilger, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    I have adult onset myopia. Last year, my prescription was D.V. O.D.
    Spherical -0.25 O.S. Spherical -0.25, D.S. This year it's -0.50.
    I'm 33, and have used computers extensively.

    My near point is good, at 17.5 cm. As I understand, my farpoint is
    coming in. I can't focus on far objects well. Actually, if I don't
    blink and do a bit of a hard stare, I can sometimes get them to
    come into crisp focus, but it's definately not effortless.

    I was thinking that if I _practice_ looking at distant objects, I
    can strengthen the longitudinal fibers of my ciliary muscle, and
    perhaps slow down or prevent further stiffening of the lens/cornea.
    Is this possible?

    I got some 1.25 and 1.75 reading glasses at the drug store, and now
    use them at the computer. This should push the computer focus point
    outwards, right? That will prevent me from staring at close objects,
    right? I use the reading glasses which make the screen just barely
    crisp at the distance I work at (and it gets fuzzy if I pull back).

    I calculated the reading glasses prescription that would do this
    using the thin lens equasion, and again using trigonometry, and I
    got these results (I'd be happy to post the entire 4 page derivation
    and details for those interested):

    For a screen at 53 cm:
    * less than 1.39 diopter in order to see clearly (given my
    current farpoint of approx 2 meters based on -0.50 diopter
    prescription)
    * Between 1.39 and 1.88 to force eyes to practice far sight.
    In this range, things will look slightly fuzzy unless I
    strain a little bit at 1.50, or a lot at 1.75
    * Never more than 1.88 ("to infinity and beyond!")

    Am I doing a healthful thing for my eyes, or is a little knowledge a
    dangerous thing?

    Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 27, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Mike Dilger

    Jan Guest

    Are you walking around with the help of a walkingstick or sitting in a
    wheelchair?
    Just compare those reading glasses in the same way when using them as a
    relative young person without a handicap.

    If you have no other "problem'' then your very low amount of myopia, I
    should say do wear your minus glasses if it comforts you.
    Also put on your minus glasses when driving for the safety of others and
    yourself.
    Do not wear the reading glasses at your age, you even might get used to wear
    them where others can managed without.

    Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
     
    Jan, Jan 27, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Some doctors say that this DOUBLING of your refractive defect is not to
    be linked with glasses.

    If you discard them, I can teach you how to get cured without them.

    If you use plus lenses, I do not know how to help you because I do not
    believe in the strain they need to work.



    --
    Please visit
    http://www.stores.ebay.it/juppiterconsultingrishi
    and you can buy a replica of the Original Dr. Bates book
    "Perfect Sight Without Glasses"
    and if you are interested, join the group
    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PerfectSight/
     
    Rishi Giovanni Gatti, Jan 27, 2004
    #3
  4. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    Thanks for the reply.
    I have no other handicap, I don't use a walking stick (unless in a bad
    neighborhood ;-), or a wheelchair. Silly questions, don't you think?

    I am not afraid to be different, *if* the glasses can help avoid further
    myopic deterioration, I will wear them. My question is, can they? Does
    excessive nearpoint focus cause deterioration of farpoint focus by shifting
    the focal range to accomodate (long term accomodation, not immediate) my
    typical myopic eye usage? If so, the reading glasses should protect my
    distance vision by avoiding lots of staring at my nearpoint (at the possible
    expense of my near point going outwards... but that's less of a concern
    to me ... see below).
    Understood. I wear them when I drive, for good reason.
    Okay, I think I understand this concern. If I no longer focus close (always
    focus middle or far), then my nearpoint may shift outwards, right? I get used
    to wearing them, and my eye no longer is good at focusing at close objects.

    But my nearpoint is at 17.5cm, and 25cm is considered normal, so I am not
    terribly worried about losing my near vision, which is excellent. Additionally,
    I can periodically test if that is happening, and practice near vision as needed,
    since losing near vision is a real long-term risk, as it is expected with age.

    This analysis, then, seems to possibly support my suspicion -- My suspicion is
    that if I practice looking at things within a particular focal range (distant
    objects in my case) my eyes will get good at that (technically, this isn't even
    the inverse of "if you don't keep looking at near objects, you will get worse
    at that," but it seems reasonable to me).

    Any other thoughts on this?

    -Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 27, 2004
    #4

  5. Please, be intelligent!!!

    How do you define imperfect sight?

    Because you do not see well at a distance.

    Now if you at the computer see well without glasses, do you have
    imperfect sight for that distance? Obviously not.

    Your imperfect sight manifests in the distance, so there is the place
    where you have to work upon.

    Follow my suggestion given in a previous message, and don't never use
    your glasses anymore, otherwise what you will gain by exercising your
    distant vision without glasses you will use if you use them!!!

    Be intelligent!!!
     
    Rishi Giovanni Gatti, Jan 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    Rishi: I'm not interested.

    Anyone else?

    -Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 27, 2004
    #6
  7. Mike Dilger

    Dr Judy Guest

    Looking at distance objects will relax your ciliary muscle, not exercise it.
    Even if it did, myopia (blur in the distance requiring minus lenses to
    correct) is not caused by a weak ciliary muscle or by stiffening of the lens
    or the cornea. Presbyopia (loss of ability to change focus from distance
    objects to near objects, so has symptoms of clear distance vision and
    blurred near vision) is due to a stiffening of the lens. Weak ciliary
    muscle is not a condition usually seen and the the cornea does not "stiffen"
    either.
    The plus lens will make the far point of the eye/lens system artificially
    closer so that you will relax your ciliary muscle while you are doing near
    work. I don't see how they will prevent staring.
    The simple (no trig needed) way to calculate the power of lens needed for a
    given distance is 1/distance in metres. So for 50cm 1/.5 = 2D. If you
    have refractive error, add the error, respecting signs, to the result.
    So for a -0.50D myope at the 50 cm distance, use 2D + (-0.50D) = 1.50 D
    lens, for a +1.00 hyperope use 2D + (+1) = 3D lens.
    Neither healthful nor dangerous. You may be more or less comfortable at the
    computer and it is unlikely to affect progression of your myopia.

    Dr Judy
     
    Dr Judy, Jan 28, 2004
    #7
  8. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    Thanks Dr Judy.

    Dr Judy wrote:
    [...]
    As I understood things (correct me if wrong) the main part of the ciliary
    muscle is exactly as you describe, but there are also "longitudinal" fibers
    reaching more around the eyeball. As I understood it, these tighten as the
    main muscle loosens when you look at far objects. But, then again, I could
    have been reading bullsh*t.
    Okay. So then lens stiffening is not happening (yet). I thought maybe
    the lens stiffens into whatever focal length/shape you use most... but I
    imply from your answer my supposition is incorrect.

    Yes. Forget the word "staring". I rephrase that sentence as "That will
    prevent me from looking at apparently-close objects all day long (in other
    words, will prevent me from stressing my ciliary muscle all day long)".


    the reading glasses prescription that would do this
    Cool. This further confirms the range of reading glasses I expected.
    Unfortunate that it is unlikely to affect the progression of my myopia. But I
    *am* more comfortable at the computer (less eye strain) and the screen looks
    bigger, which is nice ($15 glasses are cheaper than buying a larger monitor).

    Is there a way to prevent the progression of myopia, ... and why should I
    be getting myopia at my age (33)? I thought it was a developmental-stage
    issue.

    -Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 28, 2004
    #8
  9. Mike Dilger

    Otis Brown Guest

    Dear Mike,

    Sounds right to me -- but opinions vary.

    I would download an eye chart from www.i-see.org
    and check your eyes at work and at home -- just
    to make certain you are always legal.

    The legal definition for driving a car
    it 3/4 inch letters at 20 feet (i.e., 10 minute-of-angle
    letters.

    Once you are certain you are always legal, you can keep the
    minus lens in your car and use them for driving at night.

    If you check your vision an find it at 20/40 and work
    very hard at it you MIGHT see your distant vision
    clear to 20/20. This is not easy -- but some
    pilots (who worked VERY hard at it) cleared
    their vision in that manner.

    In the final analysis, your eyes belong to you
    and you should look at various ideas and
    methods to decide what is RIGHT FOR YOU!

    Best,

    Otis
    Engineer

    ****
     
    Otis Brown, Jan 28, 2004
    #9
  10. Mike Dilger

    drfrank21 Guest

    I don't know your phoric posture or accommodative status, but regardless,
    the readers you got for your monitor usage can't "hurt" your eyes but really doubt
    they would be of much help. Really, going from -.25 d to -.50 d is so minimal
    that I would not worry about it (now if there was a 2 diopter shift that would be
    another story). If I prescribed them, they would be mostly just for night driving
    and other part-time situations. And I wouldn't even recommend readers unless
    my near point testing showed anything deficient.

    Any eye exercises at this point would have a dubious value.

    frank
     
    drfrank21, Jan 28, 2004
    #10
  11. Now the idiocy has started.
    He see things bigger, so he will start to stare more, and he will go
    down the drain with the progression of his myopia.

    Time will tell.

    In a few months I hope this idiot will have the guts to come here and
    relate what was his experience.

    My prediction:
    his myopia will have double or tripled,
    he will be much more desperate than he is now.

    If he is intelligent (a thing that I do not think, but everything can be
    true under the sun) he will discard glasses and start to thinki different.
     
    Rishi Giovanni Gatti, Jan 28, 2004
    #11
  12. This is all wrong.
    There are many people at any age who are able to revert the symptoms and
    arrive to a cure without glasses.

    Scientific men do not believe in that because nobody has done any study
    with double blinds etcetera.

    But still, people improve and get a cure.

    This is part of magic?

    No, just of having learned how to use properly the eyes after discarding
    glasses!!!

    --
    Please visit
    http://www.stores.ebay.it/juppiterconsultingrishi
    and you can buy a replica of the Original Dr. Bates book
    "Perfect Sight Without Glasses"
    and if you are interested, join the group
    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PerfectSight/
     
    Rishi Giovanni Gatti, Jan 28, 2004
    #12
  13. Mike Dilger

    Jan Guest

    Major snip...
    Yes, indeed silly questions if taking out of the context.
    It was not a question meant to be answered but in this way I tried to get
    you thinking.
    Maybe I am expecting to much, I'm sorry

    What I meant was that not using parts of your body as they are meant to be
    used, could lead to parts that function imperfect after a while.
    Not walking but always driving in a wheelchair instead of using your legs
    to move around could lead to "silly walks";-) if you try to walk after a
    longer period of wheelchair driving.
    Have your own thoughts about not using your ciliary muscles in accommodating
    but the above point out a direction in wich I tried to let you think.

    Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
     
    Jan, Jan 28, 2004
    #13
  14. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    Sounds like we need more studies. Holding your eyes at a fixed near focus
    for long periods of time causes the problem. So if I periodically look out
    the window (my computer is up against a window - a minor shift of my head and
    I'm looking out 100+ feet), that should prevent further near-field-focus-caused
    myopia (but not any genetic problem like axial regrowth or eye flattening or
    whatever else might be the cause).

    Another possibility is that extensive near-field work somehow eventually
    triggers the genes which cause growth in certain cells in the eye, causing
    abnormal axial elongation; and once this process starts, it only stops when
    those genes are agained turned off. Who knows? (certainly not Rishi!)

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    -Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 28, 2004
    #14
  15. Mike Dilger

    Mike Dilger Guest

    Understood. I can accept that. I tend to prefer exercising more, rather
    than less. I don't _only_ wear the reading glasses. I put them on, and
    take them off, and look out across the street, and try to keep my eyes
    refocusing -- they tend to get better in only minutes when I do accomodation
    exercises. My fear (perhaps unfounded) is that long term heavy accomodation
    permanently bends the lens, so that when I relax, it doesn't fully return to
    a flatter shape. If so, then less accomodation, or at least a good amount
    of eye relaxation (distance viewing), is just what the doctor ordered.

    -Mike
     
    Mike Dilger, Jan 28, 2004
    #15
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.