Return of orthoK, we called this center and they claim it corrects -8 myopia and -4 astigmastim

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by acemanvx, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    Return of orthoK, we called this center and they claim it corrects -8
    myopia and -4 astigmastim! Their quoted price was $600-900 for both
    eyes which is a reasonable price. I could not believe the claims, but
    the sectractary insists its possible. I told her I heard on the
    internet one optometrist could only achieve a maximum of -4 diopter
    correction, he never got a patient corrected more than -4 and anyone
    with more than -4 of myopia got a partial correction. I also read that
    websites say orthoK can address up to -6 in theory but -3 to -4 is the
    pratical limits. No matter, ill be happy with a -3 diopter reduction in
    my myopia, this will slightly undercorrect me but enough to reduce my
    dependancy on glasses while still not needing reading glasses. I may
    make an appointment there asap :)
    acemanvx, Dec 30, 2005
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  2. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear Ace,

    Subject: Verify claims.

    I have heard many claims of this nature.

    Ask them for a money-back guarantee
    of 20/40 or better -- by your own

    If they clear your vision to 20/40 or
    better -- pay them.

    If they do not -- they do not get

    See if they will sign that type
    of contract.


    otisbrown, Dec 30, 2005
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  3. acemanvx

    Neil Brooks Guest

    Pot ... kettle ... black ...
    More importantly, Ace: ask them whether they have read "The Printer's
    Son," or if they can claim to have prevented their own nephew's

    As long as they have, then it's a certainty that their claims are
    legitimate. No further inquiry is required.
    Neil Brooks, Dec 30, 2005
  4. acemanvx

    Dan Abel Guest

    No legitimate medical person would sign such a contract. In particular,
    OrthoK requires patient compliance.
    Dan Abel, Dec 30, 2005
  5. acemanvx

    Quick Guest

    Did I understand this correctly?

    1) The center claims it corrects -8 (the sectractary)
    2) Internet optometrist has one achieved max -4 correction.
    3) Websites say -6 theoretical and -3 to -4 practical

    And you're going to rush right down there to hand over
    $600-900? sign me up -:)

    Quick, Dec 31, 2005
  6. acemanvx

    CatmanX Guest

    Actually, I give that guarantee already.

    Rarely does it need to be initiated, but 3 or 4 times in the past 12
    years it hasn't worked well enough to get a satisfactory result. Then
    there was athe girl who got perfect 6/6 and had a reaction so I pulled
    her from the lenses and refunded the money.

    dr grant
    CatmanX, Dec 31, 2005
  7. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear Quick,

    I have seen reports by some "disgruntled" Ortho-K users.

    They heard all the "promises".

    They get the Orth-K lens

    They do it -- and then "nothing happens".

    Then they give up -- and there bank account
    is $800 to $1,600 lighter -- and nothing
    has changed.

    Just on man's opinion.


    otisbrown, Dec 31, 2005
  8. acemanvx

    Neil Brooks Guest

    Only those who didn't try hard enough.

    It takes great personal resolve, you know....
    Neil Brooks, Dec 31, 2005
  9. acemanvx

    Quick Guest

    I wasn't questioning Ortho-K.
    I was questioning going to a practice which you
    suspect of making highly exaggerated claims.
    To be crystal clear I'm not even addressing the
    claims. The OP said they thought the claims
    were highly exaggerated.

    Quick, Dec 31, 2005
  10. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear Mike and Neil,

    Forget it.
    otisbrown, Dec 31, 2005
  11. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    update: We called the doctor himself and he refuted the sectary's
    claims of it correcting -8. This much myopia isnt possible anytime in
    the near future if ever due to the nature of molding your cornea. I
    guess its analogious to fitting a size 10 foot into a size 3 shoe. He
    said difficult cases are -4 to -5 diopters. That sounds more like it.
    He wouldnt make any guarantees except that the less myopia, the easier
    and to have relistic expectations. Some are disapointed to end short of
    20/20(they would never make good lasik candidates either!) But with
    orthoK you can simply stop this procedure and have your pescription
    revert back. Thats the thing I like about it.

    "I have heard many claims of this nature."

    Most will claim -6 or more but in reality, -4 is the pratical limit
    where you can expect a full correction. I know one optometrist who
    never fully corrected more than -4 but others have claimed to correct
    as much as -5.

    "Ask them for a money-back guarantee
    of 20/40 or better -- by your own

    Most places dont offer this guarantee because they spend the time and
    money doing orthoK on you. Others will give a partial refund.

    "And you're going to rush right down there to hand over
    $600-900? sign me up -:)"

    We will call all the orthoK centers first, but $600-900 is probably
    going to be the best deal.

    "Actually, I give that guarantee already."

    You probably wouldnt guarantee anything for higher myopes like me
    except that my vision will improve at ALL and that I wont develop a
    reaction or infection.

    "They do it -- and then "nothing happens"."

    Define nothing happens. If their myopia went down at ALL then something
    indeed did happen!

    Whatever astigmastim I have will be taken care of, its very small,
    should be no more than -1 so this isnt the issue. My myopia isnt an
    issue either since some of it is pseudomyopia plus I have "presbyopia"
    so as long as I achieve enough reduction in myopia to greatly reduce my
    dependancy in glasses, its a success! All I ask is to be less myopic
    than where I am now!
    Courtray to what you think, -5 is quite bad!

    I will read more about orthoK and get back to you
    acemanvx, Dec 31, 2005
  12. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    Heres my comments from what ive read so far:

    1. OrthoK is the safest way to reshape your cornea. No cornea is
    removed, ablated or destroyed. Its analogous to a belt shaping your
    waist to a slimmer shape.

    2. OrthoK is about a third the price of refractive surgury.

    3. OrthoK not being permaent is much more of a blessing than a curse.
    Get lasik or PRK and if you arent satisfied, too bad your stuck with
    it, theres no "undoing" surgury. Not happy with orthoK? Just stop
    wearing it and in short time youll revert back to the way you were and
    go back to glasses.

    4. Theres people arguing that lasik is quick, effective and permaent
    while orthoK takes time. Whats the hurry? Slow and steady is where its
    at :)

    5. someone said "That could put the laser centers out of business in a
    We have yet to see this happen but once contact and orthoK technology
    experiences a breakthru, it very well could. Who would risk their eyes
    with lasik when orthoK will give you clear vision for a week with just
    one night wear?

    6. no drugs nor chemicals are needed for orthoK, just sometimes
    artifical tear drops which are just mostly water anyway without
    medicines or chemicals

    7. I obtained good result in orthokeratholy up to 4.00. I asked an
    ortho-k OD and he said that ortho0k is good for people with up to -4.00

    Ace: I agree with that! My myopia is only a little more than that so
    most of it will be removed with orthoK and besides I have a little
    pseudomyopia that will work its way out so ill end up with excellent
    distance vision anyway.

    8. Depending on the corneal shape of the patient,
    changes as much as 4 to 5 diopters of myopia/astigmatism can be
    worked with. Typically the best results are in the 3 to 4
    diopter range.
    Ace: not a problem for me, in fact a slight undercorrection is
    beneficial for a "presbyope" like me.

    9. I tried Orthokeratology about a year and a half
    ago. I was left -4.75
    and right -5.25. It was great at first. I have
    never been able to
    leave the molds out for more than an hour or two
    before my eyes
    started regressing.

    Ace: I am not looking to correct this much myopia, more like -3 to -4
    diopters of my myopia and if I regress I can just use glasses durning
    that time or move closer to see clearly. Anything is better than my
    terriable vision now!

    10. OrthoK is great for those who work in dusty or dry environments
    where contact lenses would dry and irritate ones eyes. My contacts dry
    my eyes in short time, especially when im outside and the wind blows!
    With orthoK I can sleep in them and keep my eyes closed and moisted at
    all times
    acemanvx, Dec 31, 2005
  13. acemanvx

    MS Guest

    I had Ortho-K decades ago (early 70s), when I think it first came out. As
    with you, the promise of seeing without glasses was appealing. (Up until
    then I hadn't worn contacts either. Those were my first.)

    Well, I have never been able to see without corrective lenses. If the
    ortho-k helped my myopia at all, it was slight, not a noticeable
    improvement. Yet, I think the ortho-k might have given me astigmatism, or
    made my astigmatism worse.

    I'm very skeptical of this procedure, a gimmick to make money IMO.
    MS, Jan 23, 2006
  14. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    What was your pescription back then? What is it now? Back then, orthoK
    was only good for -.5 to -1.5 diopters and once in a while someone
    would improve by -2 diopters. Todays orthoK is much, much more advanced
    and can improve large amounts of myopia like -3.5 to -5 diopters! Its
    also much faster and more effecient
    acemanvx, Jan 23, 2006
  15. acemanvx

    MS Guest

    That's what they say, the people advertising this thing, who want to make
    money from it. That doesn't mean that it's true.
    MS, Jan 28, 2006
  16. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    actually it is true. Todays orthoK is far different than orthoK of 20
    years back. Its also a great solution to reduce your dependancy than
    glasses and a much safer alternative than lasik
    acemanvx, Jan 28, 2006
  17. acemanvx

    MS Guest

    How do you know that? Have you used it?
    MS, Jan 29, 2006
  18. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    Ive read about orthoK and they say its much safer than lasik. Those who
    disagree were challenged to prove that orthoK is as dangerous as lasik.
    Of course no one could prove it because I am correct. If by chance
    someone does prove it and its true that orthoK has risks comparable to
    lasik, I will forget about orthoK as I am not willing to take such a
    big risk. But the truth is orthoK is pratically as safe as regular
    contact lenses!
    acemanvx, Jan 29, 2006
  19. acemanvx

    Quick Guest

    Well. It sounds like you have it all sorted out and
    all the proof you need. Was there a point to your post?

    Quick, Jan 30, 2006
  20. acemanvx

    MS Guest

    Again, when you write "the truth is", how do you know what "the truth is"?
    Because that's what the ortho-k practitioners say.

    But yes, I'd agree, that ortho-K is probably far less risky than Lasik. Not

    On the other hand though, I think it is far less effective than Lasik. Not
    even close. (I'm not advocating Lasik, btw. Just since you compared those
    two procedures, in terms of riskiness, in which case you are correct, I
    thought you should also compare the efficacy of the two procedures.)
    MS, Feb 6, 2006
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