Simple optometrist due diligence question

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by Reece, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. Reece

    Reece Guest

    If a patient sees their optometrist one year after they got a prescription
    from that optometrist, and that patient states that when they had that
    prescription filled four months earlier that the new glasses caused blurry
    vision in one eye, but the next day they seemed okay, but the reason for the
    appointment is that again that eye's vision is blurred--is the optometrist
    failing to perform due diligence if he fails to examine the lens of the
    glasses for that eye?

    This is not a hypothetical question. In my case the optometrist did not
    exam the lens, even after I prompted him with the question, "Don't you want
    to check the lens in the glasses?".

    The optometrist later discovered that the lens did not match the

    Has that optometrist failed to perform due diligence the day of the exam
    when he did not look at the lens of the glasses?
    Reece, Nov 2, 2004
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  2. Reece

    Dom Guest

    What do you mean by the expression "perform due diligence"? (Maybe this is a
    US term which I'm not familiar with)

    If I were the optometrist I'd first check your vision with the glasses on,
    and if it was blurred in one eye then I would check the lens against the
    prescription. However if your vision with the glasses on was as expected, I
    would not normally check the glasses.

    BTW, if the lens was made incorrectly, why was your vision OK the next day,
    and why did it take you four months to go back to the optometrist?

    Dom, Nov 3, 2004
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  3. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Thank you for your response.

    I am trying to see what kind of leverage I can bring to bear to get this
    Dr.'s company to pay for a lens that I ordered to correct the problem that
    he failed to identify. That I ordered because he failed to identify the
    lens as the culprit. I would say that at least the Dr. is a terrible

    But you are saying that a professional approach to my situation allows for a
    choice to be made by a Dr. to not check the lenses, and still be considered
    a professional approach? Are you saying that he was professional in not
    checking the lens?

    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  4. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Due diligence, from

    1 : such diligence as a reasonable person under the same circumstances would
    use : use of reasonable but not necessarily exhaustive efforts called also
    reasonable diligence
    NOTE: Due diligence is used most often in connection with the performance of
    a professional or fiduciary duty, or with regard to proceeding with a court
    action. Due care is used more often in connection with general tort actions.

    My vision seemed OK the next day because I checked it indoors at a too short
    distance, and it seemed OK. I did not know at the time that the distance
    was too short, and that the lighting factored into it. Then I returned to
    my hectic work schedule, where it was not likely to show up, as I work with
    computers. It turns out that the astigmitism was off by six degrees in the
    lens. The Dr. missed it, and since I could read the 20/20 line, was sure my
    lenses were okay. But my normal correction is 20/15, so seeing 20/20 with
    one eye makes it quite blurry by comparison with a 20/15 eye.

    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  5. If you know that there's only one answer that you'll accept, why bother
    posting the question?

    Scott Seidman, Nov 3, 2004
  6. Reece

    Reece Guest


    I do troubleshooting for a living. A good troubleshooter looks at all the
    variables that may be coming into play, and tries to learn as much about the
    problem as possible. As such, what may seem pigheaded to you is actually an
    attempt by me for unambiguous clarity in my mind that the problem is clearly
    understood and that all things are properly weighted. Sometimes a different
    phrasing of a question brings a different response as well.

    But I understand that it might appear to you that I am only interested in
    accepting the answer I want. What I am actually doing is making certain
    that an answer I might not prefer is correct, when that is put forth as the

    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  7. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Additional question: Is the fact that the Dr. did not test my vision with my
    glasses on beyond the 20/20 line, when blurriness was the complaint, a
    failure to perform due diligence?

    The way I was finally able to convince him that there was a problem, after
    spending a chunk of change in a misguided attempt to fix the problem, was by
    not only saying I saw blurry through one eye, which didn't work with him,
    but by observing that the background on the eye chart was darker with that
    eye. Then he tested me on the 20/15 line, and viola, I could read nothing
    with my right eye, and perfectly with my left. Then he decided to check the
    lens, and discovered that the astigmatism was off by six degrees.

    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  8. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Thanks for your response. This is a case of an independent optomitrist, so
    he does not have the option of remaking or fixing a lens problem, as he does
    not sell glasses. This is to say that he supports a major glasses retailer.
    So the businesses are not integrated as one. When I went in with the
    blurred vision complaint, and paid for a new exam, he tested my eyes, and
    said that they were fine, and that there was a slight change in perscription
    possible, and that it wouldn't be significant. He gave me a lens to
    demonstrate that it wouldn't be significant change over my current glasses
    perscription. I tested the difference looking through my glasses with my
    right eye, and did see a difference. What he did not say was that this
    change was for my left eye. So I ordered a new lens with this new
    prescription, which of course failed to fix my blurriness, as it was,
    unbeknownst to me, for the wrong eye. It is this unnecessary lens order
    that I want him to pay for. The retailer is fixing their error without

    Thanks again.
    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  9. I would think the first step for a troubleshooter would be to determine if
    there is trouble. Your complaint seems to be one day of blurry vision that
    resolved. Now, you want the provider to pay for a new lens a year later.

    FWIW -- six degrees does not seem like a huge error in an axis of
    astigmatism, and the 20/20 line seems like a fine place to check your
    correction. It seems like the doc did fine by you.

    Scott Seidman, Nov 3, 2004
  10. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Perhaps I am not being clear. My complaint was that my lens caused blurry
    vision the day I got it, that it seemed okay after that, and that in
    September of this year I noticed that I was seeing blurry out of that eye,
    relative to my other eye. The O.D. in this exam, which I paid for, did not
    run any tests with my glasses on other than having me read the 20/20 line.
    He did not check the lens. He did not have me read the 20/15 line. He
    simply did not do the simple tests that would have solved the problem.
    Instead he told me that there was no problem. He later, on a later date,
    clearly found there was a problem. Clearly the doc did not do fine by me.
    Would you be happy with such a result, if it caused you to spend an extra
    $160 for nothing? Had he identified the problem, the eyeglass retailer
    would have fixed it for free. In fact, when he did identify the problem,
    the eyeglass retailer did agree to fix it for free. But his error cost me
    $160 due to his not identifying the error and giving me a "very slightly
    changed" new prescription, which he did not identify as being for the other
    eye. Thus I bought a new lens to fix my problem, which still existed after
    the prescription was filled, and provided me with no benefit. That is the
    lens I want him to pay for. Now the eyeglass retailer is eating up part of
    that $160 lens cost, and I want my O.D. to pick up the rest.

    Do you still think that the doc did fine by me?

    Reece, Nov 3, 2004
  11. Yes, I do.

    Scott Seidman, Nov 3, 2004
  12. Reece

    Ann Guest

    I don't. But then I understand what the OP is saying and am not sure
    that the rest of you do :)

    Ann, Nov 3, 2004
  13. He didn't discount it. YOU TOLD HIM IT RESOLVED!! If your vision was no
    longer blurry-- remember, you TOLD him it was no longer blurry-- and you
    tested to 20/20 with the glasses on, you had no complaint.

    In fact, think of it this way. You buy a piece of gear, you hold on to it
    for a year, not even bothering to unpack it. When you unpack it, it
    doesn't work. If you had opened it right away, the vendor likely would
    have replaced it. A year later, you're SOL.

    Another thing-- the optician was perfectly capable of telling if the lens
    matched the prescription, even without the optometrist. Why didn't you
    just ask the optician to check? It was their mistake, not your
    optometrist's. In fact, even a year later, if you could demonstrate that
    you didn't get a correct prescription, I bet most opticians would replace
    the lens for free. Perhaps you should consider voting with your feet here.

    Why don't you fill us in on the details, as I don't believe that a 6 degree
    difference in axis would bother many people. How big is the correction?

    Scott Seidman, Nov 3, 2004
  14. Reece

    Reece Guest


    In September I was in the retail glasses place to purchase a pair of Rx
    sunglasses. And I did a quick check of my eyes, and observed that the
    vision in my right eye through my glasses was blurred. And that is what
    prompted the appointment with the O.D., whose office is in an open shared
    space with the retail glasses place. So on the day of the appointment I was
    having my eyes checked because of the blur I was experiencing wearing the
    glasses that day. It is additional information that on the day I picked
    them up, four months earlier, from another branch of that retail glasses
    chain, that I immediately noticed that my vision was blurred. I noticed
    this in the parking lot, and returned immediately. It was worse than my old
    glasses. The salesperson told me that it was the end of the day and that
    people's eyes are tired, and to try them tomorrow. So the next day I put
    them on, and indoors they seemed fine. And I rushed off to my hectic work
    world thinking they were okay after all. But that day in September of this
    year, they were not okay. And so I made an appointment and had an exam,
    exclusively because I was seeing blurry _that_ day.

    I have never considered my O.D. culpable for the fact that my original
    prescription was goofed up by the lab. He is an independent O.D., not part
    of the glasses retailer. My complaint with my O.D. is that he did not
    identify the fact that my glasses were screwed up on the day of that
    appointment this September. And because of this, when he wrote a
    prescription that was "not significantly different" than the original
    prescription, I used it. But the change, which he failed to state, was in
    my left eye. And so I ordered a new lens to fix my problem, and it of
    course had no such effect. I was already delighted with the vision in my
    left eye. And so this new lens order is directly linked to my O.D. failing
    to identify the fact that my glasses were not as prescribed. And whatever
    the retailer does not pay for the new lens for my left eye, I expect my
    O.D.'s company to pay for. Because I didn't need a more perfect lens for my
    left eye.

    Reece, Nov 4, 2004
  15. Reece

    Reece Guest


    The correction:

    Single vision
    ___ sph cyl Axis
    od -3.50 -1.50 017
    os -3.50 -1.25 167

    Reece, Nov 4, 2004
  16. Reece

    Dr Judy Guest

    It is unrealistic to expect the doctor is to refund money that you did not
    pay to him. You should be looking to the person who made the lens wrong to
    redo a no charge lens. Also the lens maker should have rechecked the lens
    against the first prescription and discovered the mistake. The best you can
    expect from the doctor is a refund of the fee paid for the recheck eye exam.

    Dr Judy
    Dr Judy, Nov 4, 2004
  17. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Dr Judy,

    The retail glasses store is fixing the bad lens at no charge. But, when my
    O.D. failed to identify the lens in the exam that is in discussion, he gave
    me a new prescription, which he said was insignificantly different than the
    previous one. And he gave me a glass to look through while I was wearing my
    glasses to see that there was almost no difference. But there was a
    difference. But my complaint was about my right eye, and his change was for
    my left eye. And he failed to state that the prescription was for the left
    eye, and so I naturally thought that I should order this new lens to solve
    my problem. That is the lens I want him to pay for--the lens that I never
    had to buy because it had nothing to do with my problem.

    Reece, Nov 4, 2004
  18. Reece

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    Did you specifically state that the reason for your visit was to determine
    whether or not the glasses you had made with a 7 month old prescription
    were made accurately, or whether or not your prescription had changed one
    year later? The optometrist may have assumed that you were in for your
    annual exam. The point would appear to be moot since the problem was
    discovered by the optometrist anyway.

    Dr. Leukoma, Nov 4, 2004
  19. Reece

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    "Most" optometrists will check the prescription on your new eyeglasses if
    asked. Not sure what happened here.

    Dr. Leukoma, Nov 7, 2004
  20. Reece

    Reece Guest

    Well, this O.D. has some problems, and is low in professionalism, IMO.

    I went and picked up my third pair of lenses last week, and of course there
    was still no balanced acuity. And so I am wearing my old glasses, that I
    have had for 8 years. And which are much better.

    I am now in contact with people at the corporation level, and if they do not
    sort this out nicely, I will file a suit against them. I feel so
    embarrassed for them, because they have done so many idiotic things, and
    their checks and balances are all out of whack. It is my opinion that they
    will discount my problem in favor of the optometrist's assessment of the
    situation, until they do the research as a result of having to do so to
    defend against a suit. It is amazing what people can see when they really
    have to look at a problem. I, of course, will have an expert from one of
    the teaching schools assess the glasses they gave me, since no one at the
    optometrists company has responded to my request to solve this problem by
    providing me with a higher quality optometrist and giving me a refund for
    what was an appointment that was unnecessary, based on the fact that the
    O.D. found nothing new, and evidently goofed in the original appointment.
    And other issues.

    It is so messy, since there have been so many errors by the O.D. and by the
    glasses vender. Including a lie, that my glasses seemed to be OK, but then
    being told to see the Dr. who, when he found that I could make out blurry
    letters on the 20/20 line, decided I was OK. Until I insisted, and
    mentioned that the white on the chart was darker out of my blurry eye. Then
    he checked, and found the astigmatism error. Which may well be only one of
    the errors. Then the eyeglasses place guy told the optometrist that he had
    seen the astigmatism error in the glasses. Slightly at variance with my
    glasses seeming to be OK, which he had stated less than five minutes

    One of my complaints in the suit will be that the eyeglasses place did not
    return a pair of lenses that I had requested when I replaced an order. When
    the glasses "came back" still very flawed, there was no evidence that they
    had been changed. The fact that the lenses weren't returned suggest that
    perhaps they hadn't.

    If it wasn't so irritating, I would find this whole thing hysterical. Their
    business model as it pertains to delivering quality services and products is
    so awful, I have never seen anything like it. Some companies hire "mystery
    shoppers" to see what their customers experience. I am a misery shopper,
    and they can read about what I experienced when I file a suit. If a system
    does many things bad, I expect that it is not going to self-correct at the
    very end when it hasn't done so yet.

    Reece, Nov 10, 2004
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