Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by wazesz, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. wazesz

    wazesz Guest

    Hi, I have strabismus. It seems to be getting worse or maybe i'm just
    imagining it. I was wondering if there are any ways that can prevent
    it from getting worse or reverse the process without surgery. I've
    been told that once its been with me through adulthood, its hard to
    correct it whether its exercise or surgery.
    wazesz, Apr 11, 2005
  2. wazesz

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    It really depends on the type, the degree, whether there is any
    amblyopia present, and whether there has been nerve damage.

    Insofar as therapy is concerned, exo-deviations are easier to train
    than eso-deviations, unless the eso-deviation is caused by uncorrected
    hyperopia, in which case glasses can help.

    Dr. Leukoma, Apr 11, 2005
  3. There are different schools of thought on reversing strabismus:

    1. You are stuffed

    2. You might possibly be helped in rare examples.

    3. Providing you are prepared to consistantly adhere to a program of
    techniques you can recover at any age.

    Generally this newsgroup is populated with the 1. School of thought.

    3. Can be provided thru a behavioural optometrist.

    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 11, 2005
  4. wazesz

    retinula Guest

    Andrew Judd is an egotist who seeks attention. Do not pay any regard to
    his postings. He has no background in Visual Science, Optometry, or
    retinula, Apr 12, 2005
  5. wazesz

    Dr Judy Guest

    What do you mean by this? If you search previous threads, you will find
    that the answer most often given is option #2.
    Option #3 is actually the same as option #2. Strabismus can be treated
    through exercises and therapy in only a limited number of cases, very much
    dependent upon the details of the particular case. Strabismus associated
    with eccentric fixation, anomolus correspondence, suppression, amblyopia,
    noncomitant deviation and monocular deviation is unlikely to be successfully
    treated with therapy. Strabismus that is alternating, non amblyopic,
    varible suppression, and variable correspondance is more likely to be
    treatable with a good outcome, the later type of strabismus is rarer than
    the former.

    Dr L summed it up nicely:

    "It really depends on the type, the degree, whether there is any
    amblyopia present, and whether there has been nerve damage."

    The original poster needs to return to his eye care provider to find out if,
    in fact, his strabismus is getting worse and whether, in his particular
    case, therapy would be of any value.

    For most adult strabs, the main issue is cosmesis --- they don't like the
    appearance of the wandering eye and surgery is easier, more predictable and
    more likely to have a good cosmetic outcome than therapy.

    Dr Judy
    Dr Judy, Apr 12, 2005
  6. wazesz

    RM Guest

    I think we all know what he meant by this. This guy is a jerk seeking
    gratification by posting his "opinions" in this newsgroup.
    RM, Apr 12, 2005
  7. wazesz

    Neil Brooks Guest


    Adj. 1. Concerned, bothered. Usually phrased in the negative. E.g."I'm
    not stuffed with going out drinking tonight."
    2. In a position of no hope.
    Neil Brooks, Apr 12, 2005
  8. wazesz

    RM Guest

    Perhaps I spoke too soon.
    I owe Andrew the benefit of the doubt. Sorry Andrew.
    RM, Apr 12, 2005
  9. My use of slang was not so helpful. Thanks Neil for explaining.

    The problem in treatment of Strabisbus is the belief system of both the
    person with strabismus and the person treating it.

    Recently we have had endless arguments on eye movement.

    It is clear can be to me that our eyes can independantly move relative
    to each other in order to fixate on a target. Many people here
    believe that is impossible.

    There seems an obsession with conjugate saccades. If you believe in
    all movement being conjugate then enivitably strabismus is going to be
    difficult to cure.

    But if you believe that all eye movement is attention driven and can
    see that each eye can move independantly to fixate in any 2D plain
    within a 3D scene to produce one binocular mergable image then more
    possibilities exist.

    There is a notion here that merging is driven by image differences as a
    reflex that cannot be altered by conscious control. But it is easy to
    demonstrate that the finer parts of our movement are under conscious

    Brain science does not have all the answers yet but many here seem to
    have a view of eyes that is driven by outdated text book ideas that
    dont match normal eye function as demonstrated by normal people with
    good vision.

    By some method independant eye movement is possible depending on what
    it being attended to ***or*** not. Since there is a degree of
    independant function. Independant or depressed or dominating attention
    is possible.

    Evidence shows that via amblyopia there are possibilities for long term
    hemispheric bias in visual attention. Altering that is never going to
    be easy but impossible is not the correct word.

    To say that 2. is the same as 3. is just a biased viewpoint from a
    person who believes 2.

    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 12, 2005
  10. wazesz

    Dr Judy Guest

    major snip
    Please cite clinical evidence about the success rate in non surgical
    treatment of adult strabismus, especially evidence of success approaching
    100% in treating all (not selected) cases. Then I will believe number 3.

    Dr Judy
    Dr Judy, Apr 13, 2005
  11. Please cite clinical evidence about the success rate in non surgical
    treatment of adult strabismus, especially evidence of success
    100% in treating all (not selected) cases. Then I will believe number

    Well in reality there are a great many different other schools of
    thought between 2 and 3 with corresponding claims of success or not and
    a great deal of greyness inbetween.

    Similarly it appears that you yourself are positioned somewhere between
    1 and 2 for many of your clients wanting help, rather than exceptional
    cases which are truelly beyond treament.

    Each case has to be different. I imagine your failures are only
    failures because you dont know how to treat these patients and have
    made assumptions about normal human eyes that are unreasonable as
    demonstrated by your comments in previous threads over many years on
    how eyes move.
    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 13, 2005
  12. wazesz

    Dr Judy Guest

    So, now you agree with us that only some cases are treatable, not, as you
    previously said:

    "Providing you are prepared to consistantly adhere to a program of
    techniques you can recover at any age."

    Dr judy
    Dr Judy, Apr 14, 2005
  13. Dr Judy said
    previously said:
    techniques you can recover at any age."

    Some rarer cases are untreatable, but there is no reason why the
    majority of cases cannot be treated providing a person can realise that
    its not a simple matter to alter such a fundamental brain/eye
    coordination problem such as Strabismus.

    Doctors who believe that strabismus is just a muscle problem cannot
    understand the complexities involved in strabismus. The problem is not
    the muscles but the device that controls the muscles, which is
    something they have no training in. Strabismus reflects a
    significant brain 'problem' and one that behavioural optometrists
    believe can be treated if a wholistic approach to the problem is
    considered that is more than just eye exercises or surgery. These
    optometrists have noticed that Strabismus often arises after periods of
    difficulty for the inflicted person.

    And no I am not going to satify your desire for studies to support this
    view. If you want to find out more go and talk to a behavioural
    optometrist who specialises in childhood strabismus.

    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 16, 2005
  14. wazesz

    RM Guest

    Because you can't
    RM, Apr 17, 2005
  15. Excuse me, but I think most real doctors do indeed have training in "the
    device" you mention, the brain. Do you? Do your friends who are
    feeding you this stuff? How about some credentials? Have you or any of
    your friends taken any brain courses at all? I doubt it.

    Now that is one of the weirdest statements I've heard yet. Name me one,
    just one study that even attempts to confirm that statement. It is NON
    Ok, no problem. I didn't expect you to...

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Apr 17, 2005
  16. wazesz

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    Where did you get the huge chip on your shoulder regarding science in
    general, and optometrists in particular? You're just another Otis, but
    not as logical.

    Dr. Leukoma, Apr 17, 2005
  17. DRG said

    general, and optometrists in particular? You're just another Otis, but

    not as logical.

    I have a science degree. I believe in the scientific method.

    I attempt to explain what I observe.

    For example I observe that when stressed a friend of mine developes
    strabismus so that her right eye points inwards. I observe that she
    has never been treated for Strabismus and never been diagnosed with
    Strabismus. This problem does not create issues for her and is an
    infrequent occurance.

    Nevertheless i am curious as to how this event is happening . What i
    have discovered is that people do not yet have scientific answers to
    this kind of observation.
    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 17, 2005
  18. wazesz

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    Your friend has intermittent strabismus. The fact that it has not been
    "officially" diagnosed is beside the point. Intermittent strabismus
    only causes problems...intermittently.

    Why is it happening? If she is or was a hyperope, that would be one

    I totally agree that satisfactory explanations do not exist for a
    number of phenomena.

    Dr. Leukoma, Apr 17, 2005
  19. Well it is not just intermittant strabismus. It appears to be
    intermittant strabismus caused by certain personal stress of a
    particular kind. She is -5.5 myopic and astigmatic. 180 degrees
    right eye.

    Right eye deviations seem more common from my observations.

    Also it seems more common for the right eye to be worse when there is a
    difference. It would be nice to have more data than i have so far

    In a model that recognises that the right eye tends to be the left
    hemispheres eye these things can make at least some sense - even if so
    far there are no satisfactory explanations for how this can be

    Patching an eye appears to preferentially stimulate parts of the Brain
    so that verbal responses are different for each eye. These responses
    appear to indicate that the responses are related to contra lateral
    hemispheric stimulation. Again there is no satisfactory explanation
    but the observation is in the psychological literature and its
    relatively easy to demonstrate this for oneself for at least some
    patched people.

    andrewedwardjudd, Apr 18, 2005
  20. andrewedwardjudd, Apr 18, 2005
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