Success in Amblyopia Therapy

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by Jeff, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    My son Brandon has improved from seeing 20/60 and 20/200 corrected to
    20/20 and 20/30 corrected since starting patching back last October.
    He was taken off patching two weeks ago. He has glasses for his
    original RX of +7.5/+4.75 and is now +7/+3.50. The doctor felt that
    he should stay in his now overplussed Rx until he breaks the glasses
    (he is 6). He felt that since his weaker (20/30) eye is closer to the
    right correction, he is getting some therapeutic benefit with the old
    Rx. We return next February for a follow up. However, in school the
    teacher noted that he began having difficulty following directions on
    the board towards the end of the year, so we may elect to get new
    lenses in August. Would you pursue occassional patching or scotch
    tape over the good lense to keep up some therapy? Considering his
    age, will he eventually see 20/20 in both eyes? Would patching affect
    things now that he's 20/30? I would expect the concern of the
    neurological connection to his retina is over, and the remaining issue
    is training the eye muscles to focus to achieve 20/20. Does that
    sound right? At any rate, we are elated to have made such progress,
    which was in large measure due to the contributions of this news
    group. Your advice and concern helped us make critical decisions and
    probably saved his eyesight. Thank you all.

    Jeff Edney
     
    Jeff, Jun 21, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jeff

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    (Jeff) wrote in
    That's terrific news!

    At 20/30, Brandon is still technically amblyopic. In a binocular
    situation, he will probably still have dominance of the non-amblyopic eye.
    Therefore, it certainly wouldn't hurt to keep up some patching activity.
    My thoughts, anyway.

    DrG
     
    Dr. Leukoma, Jun 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. What was the rational for stopping the patching treatment when it is still
    not equalized? Did he reach a plateau and was unchanged for 3 patching
    intervals (1 interval = 1 week per year of age, if patching full-time,
    prorated according to % of time patching - 1/2 time patch = twice as long
    followup)? If the patch is stopped before equality, the better eye tends to
    still take over, the the amblyopia tends to get worse again. Need to patch
    to equal vision, and continue until equal preference, if possible (in my
    experience).

    At this point with 20/20 and 20/30, he still is amblyopic. Assuming he has
    not plateaued, then patching would be expected to continue to correct
    despite being 20/30. I have patients where the better eye is 20/15, and we
    keep it up until they try to reach that vision in the other eye also.

    Also, waiting 8 months for a followup visit? If the treatment does need to
    be modified, a very long interval without supervision has occurred, and you
    may be losing valuable time while he is still in the treatable age range.

    The concern of "neurological correction to his retina" is incorrect, and it
    is not over., The problem is in the brain, not the retina. You do not
    neurologically correct the retina.

    I would not stop until he has reached equality, or has plateaued for the 3
    patching intervals.


    David Robins, MD
    Board certified Ophthalmologist
    Pediatric and strabismus subspecialty
    Member of AAPOS
    (American Academy of Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus)
     
    David Robins, MD, Jun 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    Based on your assessment we have arranged to visit another eye doctor
    next Wednesday. I had a feeling that the Pediatric Opthamologist at
    UAB wasn't being aggressive enough with his treatment. He just told
    us that 20/30 was pretty good and we didn't need to patch any more.
    No, he had not plateaued as you described. In fact, I think he was
    worse the last visit in May than back in February. He could only read
    one of five letters at 20/30 and the doctor said that was seeing
    20/30. The UAB doctor seemed to us that Brandon's case wasn't serious
    enough to waste his time, or at least that's what I came away feeling.
    Thank god for this news group!

    Jeff
     
    Jeff, Jul 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    The new doctor found that Brandon has equal vision in both eyes now
    (or pretty close) and decided to not pursue further patching based on
    equalization. She said his vision indicated "fusion" and his eyes in
    her evaluation were working together. We have a follow up in 3
    months. She underplussed both his new Rx by 1 diopter (vision is
    +6.75/+3.5, Rx is +5.75/+2.5). She felt that being underplussed one
    diopter would assist in becoming less farsighted. His acuity was
    about 20/25 in each eye separately, and he was reading 3/5 letters
    with both eyes 20/20. Does this sound like the right approach? She
    said his degree of progress was unusual in that he has gone from 20/40
    corrected in one eye and 20/200 corrected in the other to 20/25 in
    both with only 6 months of patching (age 5 1/2 to 6). It just shows
    that the conventional patching and correct prescription (as suggested
    by you doctors) works!

    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
    Jeff, Jul 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    Hi Jeff

    I hope this is not too invasive or personal for you, but I was
    wondering if you might be interested in what a number of behavioural
    optometrists say about some of the issues and influences affecting
    hyperopia and the high astigmatism that is often associated with
    hyperopia?

    Best

    Andrew
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    Is it short?

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    "I read about this syndrome called hypochondria in a
    magazine. I think I've got it." -- DA
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    He has no astigmatism associated with his hyperopia. I am only
    interested in the subject of whether a equal but 1 diopter less than
    measured is the correct approach in treating someone with
    ansiometropia and bilateral amblyopia who has had a high degree of
    success in results with patching.

    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
    Jeff, Jul 16, 2004
    #8
  9. Sounds like your son is on the right track. Equal vision. Equal underplus of
    each eye to stay balanced. 1 diopter is about right for this age. No proof
    this encourages emmetropization, but I believe in it also.

    Going from 20/200 to 20/25 is 6 months is fast, but not that unusual.
    However, I don't remember if the 20/200 was with or without glasses at the
    beginning. Only corrected vision counts. That is why I see them back with
    glasses and no patch shortly after,in order to measure vision correctly, not
    the out of focus vision that is refraction as well as amblyopia combined.

    Assuming he stays equal without patching, only glasses changes would be
    needed over time. If he regresses for some reason, repatching may be
    required til he reaches an age where it will not go backward, which may be
    as old as 8-10 years old. He should be followed, with gradually longer
    intervals in between, until he is older.
     
    David Robins, MD, Jul 16, 2004
    #9
  10. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    I can give you a short one.

    Hyperopes dont like detail.
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 16, 2004
    #10
  11. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    Bev

    I did a tiny bit of research on you:) This is not a short answer
    but might yet keep your interest.

    Your prescription appears to be

    R: +3.50 +2.25 10 (also includes 2.25 add)
    L: +4.50 +2.25 170

    So removing the add for reading

    R: +1.25 +2.25 10
    L: +2.25 +2.25 170

    So for both eyes you have approximately 180 degree astigmatism.

    Also you have reasonable anisometropia with your left eye having an
    extra diopter.

    Now this might seem completely insane but once you stop laugthing
    maybe you could run it past a few of your friends before just
    dimissing it?

    This stuff is pretty personal for you. I have arrived at this
    information only based on your eye glass prescription.

    According to Roberto Kaplan OD based on your astigmatism you tend to
    be stubborn inflexible and impatient. There is an anger component in
    this way of reacting to what happens around you.

    However from **your** point of view you may feel that at times you are
    being attacked or critised by other people and therefore your
    stubborness, inflexibility and impatience is really only a 'survival'
    way of reacting to circumstances.

    Being yielding flexible and patient **could** create more harmony,
    better relationships etc without creating the feeling in you that you
    are being taken advantage of.

    How does this feel so far?

    There is more

    There is an anger component in your astigmatic way of seeing things.
    Also your hyperopia itself is related to feeling a strong emotion
    which is often anger.

    In hyperopia there is a tendency to not express ones anger for fear of
    offending others. Sometimes you may go ballistic with others but on
    balance anger remains that is not resolved.

    Your tendency is to push your strong emotion (probably it is anger)
    away from you.

    You resist detail (you wanted a short answer) and find it hard to
    focus on what is closer to you, instead you tend to find it easier to
    focus on what is further away from you, such as family and friends or
    activities that are 'out there' rather than being 'close by'

    I see you are married to a myope.

    Myopes are in a manner of speaking behaviourally opposite to
    hyperopes.

    Myopes are essentially insecure but may mask that with artificial
    extroversion or aggression. They get concerned with detail but cant
    see the big picture so well as you can.

    However, although you are far seeing, you can benefit from looking at
    the detail of some things a little more than you do at the moment.
    But I can imagine that living with a myope might infuriate you
    sometimes!

    For example you tend to be inpatient. Your reaction is to not focus
    on detail and instead to push it away from you...perhaps with a bit of
    huffing and puffing?

    If you can believe that being a wee bit more patient could benefit
    your life then it then becomes possible, for a few moments longer,
    focus on what is closer to you without going into a reaction.

    **also** instead of just being angry, see that anger has wisdom
    associated with it. You are far seeing:) You have wisdom:)
    Rather than just getting angry (which might be terrifying for a
    myope:-( ) take a few moments to see what your anger is telling you
    about this circumstance where you flash into anger, reflect a while on
    it and ***then** be **passionate** about bringing about productive
    changes in your life.

    Also for both you and your husband you tend to have issues to do with
    power and control. Bit of a battle there perhaps at times i would
    imagine. Myopes tend to have difficulty seeing they have the power
    to just be themselves. They kind of seek permission from others,
    which to them is like being good, anxious to please others, but others
    can often see this trait as just being plain annoying! Bev, you are
    far more far seeing than your husband who can get lost in detail, but
    that clarity in far seeing can create problems for **others** who
    cannot see what **you** can see so clearly, and you will not tend to
    be very tolerant of the other persons more narrow perception, because
    to **you** others can seem blind. Sometimes this belief in your
    vision and the rightness of it can be very difficult for other people
    close to you:-( Living with a hyperope can be challenging too:-(

    This might seem like mind reading but is based on good science.

    What is further interesting is that these kinds of vision problems are
    related to the relationship you have with yourself. That relationship
    is then reflected in the relationship you have with others.

    Clearing your inner vision can have profound changes in your
    relationships with others, and create passion for life, which makes
    for less anger and frustration:)

    If you are so far interested:), if you let me have your husbands
    prescription I could then reflect back to you the myopic and
    astigmatic 'survival personality' correlates that Kaplan and others
    have identified that apply to his prescription.

    Also as you are not precisely 180 degree astigmatic there are other
    influences to your astigmatism which might interest you.

    I guess i stand or fall based on what you say next!

    Best

    Andrew:)
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    Bev

    I did a tiny bit of research on you:) This is not a short answer
    but might yet keep your interest.

    Your prescription appears to be

    R: +3.50 +2.25 10 (also includes 2.25 add)
    L: +4.50 +2.25 170

    So removing the add for reading

    R: +1.25 +2.25 10
    L: +2.25 +2.25 170

    So for both eyes you have approximately 180 degree astigmatism.

    Also you have reasonable anisometropia with your left eye having an
    extra diopter.

    Now this might seem completely insane but once you stop laugthing
    maybe you could run it past a few of your friends before just
    dimissing it?

    This stuff is pretty personal for you. I have arrived at this
    information only based on your eye glass prescription.

    According to Roberto Kaplan OD based on your astigmatism you tend to
    be stubborn inflexible and impatient. There is an anger component in
    this way of reacting to what happens around you.

    However from **your** point of view you may feel that at times you are
    being attacked or critised by other people and therefore your
    stubborness, inflexibility and impatience is really only a 'survival'
    way of reacting to circumstances.

    Being yielding flexible and patient **could** create more harmony,
    better relationships etc without creating the feeling in you that you
    are being taken advantage of.

    How does this feel so far?

    There is more

    There is an anger component in your astigmatic way of seeing things.
    Also your hyperopia itself is related to feeling a strong emotion
    which is often anger.

    In hyperopia there is a tendency to not express ones anger for fear of
    offending others. Sometimes you may go ballistic with others but on
    balance anger remains that is not resolved.

    Your tendency is to push your strong emotion (probably it is anger)
    away from you.

    You resist detail (you wanted a short answer) and find it hard to
    focus on what is closer to you, instead you tend to find it easier to
    focus on what is further away from you, such as family and friends or
    activities that are 'out there' rather than being 'close by'

    I see you are married to a myope.

    Myopes are in a manner of speaking behaviourally opposite to
    hyperopes.

    Myopes are essentially insecure but may mask that with artificial
    extroversion or aggression. They get concerned with detail but cant
    see the big picture so well as you can.

    However, although you are far seeing, you can benefit from looking at
    the detail of some things a little more than you do at the moment.
    But I can imagine that living with a myope might infuriate you
    sometimes!

    For example you tend to be inpatient. Your reaction is to not focus
    on detail and instead to push it away from you...perhaps with a bit of
    huffing and puffing?

    If you can believe that being a wee bit more patient could benefit
    your life then it then becomes possible, for a few moments longer,
    focus on what is closer to you without going into a reaction.

    **also** instead of just being angry, see that anger has wisdom
    associated with it. You are far seeing:) You have wisdom:)
    Rather than just getting angry (which might be terrifying for a
    myope:-( ) take a few moments to see what your anger is telling you
    about this circumstance where you flash into anger, reflect a while on
    it and ***then** be **passionate** about bringing about productive
    changes in your life.

    Also for both you and your husband you tend to have issues to do with
    power and control. Bit of a battle there perhaps at times i would
    imagine. Myopes tend to have difficulty seeing they have the power
    to just be themselves. They kind of seek permission from others,
    which to them is like being good, anxious to please others, but others
    can often see this trait as just being plain annoying! Bev, you are
    far more far seeing than your husband who can get lost in detail, but
    that clarity in far seeing can create problems for **others** who
    cannot see what **you** can see so clearly, and you will not tend to
    be very tolerant of the other persons more narrow perception, because
    to **you** others can seem blind. Sometimes this belief in your
    vision and the rightness of it can be very difficult for other people
    close to you:-( Living with a hyperope can be challenging too:-(

    This might seem like mind reading but is based on good science.

    What is further interesting is that these kinds of vision problems are
    related to the relationship you have with yourself. That relationship
    is then reflected in the relationship you have with others.

    Clearing your inner vision can have profound changes in your
    relationships with others, and create passion for life, which makes
    for less anger and frustration:)

    If you are so far interested:), if you let me have your husbands
    prescription I could then reflect back to you the myopic and
    astigmatic 'survival personality' correlates that Kaplan and others
    have identified that apply to his prescription.

    Also as you are not precisely 180 degree astigmatic there are other
    influences to your astigmatism which might interest you.

    I guess i stand or fall based on what you say next!

    Best

    Andrew:)
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    :) Well, I can give you an astigmatic hyperopic data point: I HATED
    programming because you had to do too many tiny things in order to do a
    bigger thing. I hate housecleaning because it involves a succession of
    replacements before you can actually move the thing that you WANT to
    move. I tend to remember the bottom line rather than the steps leading
    thereto, and it's easier to figure out something all over again than to
    remember just what worked before.

    So far, so good.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
    If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
    --Revolution Books, New York, New York
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 17, 2004
    #13
  14. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    Well, if you did more than BASIC research you have more to go on than
    just my prescription. Still, I will assume you're telling the truth...
    OK, so far, so good, you bastard!
    Sometimes, but more likely it's a response to something that pissed me
    off about somebody else not related to their opinion of me. Honest.
    Yeah, it could, and I truly try to be more patient. I haven't killed my
    MIL, so I think on the whole I'm succeeding. OTOH, I see little reason
    to be more than nominally patient with strangers.
    Pretty basic, and probably applies to a goodly chunk of the population.
    That doesn't sound right. I wasn't aware of my vision problems until I
    was maybe 38, and I was pissed off LONG before that! Although I did try
    glasses when I was 16 -- somebody else's glasses made edges a bit
    sharper, but I hated the way the glasses I got for myself made my eyes
    feel. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have known that the
    damn things were just wrong and should have been redone, but I didn't
    get glasses that I actually needed and wore for 20 years or so.
    This is probably also applicable to most people living with way too many
    other people. We wouldn't have anywhere near as much road rage if we
    were allowed to shoot from our cars!
    Unclear. Do you mean suppress?
    Nope, far more introspective than I'd like to be. Hence this reply :)
    That sounds, again, pretty basic. Without glasses, myopes can't see
    ANYTHING but detail.
    Hey, emmetropes are bad enough!
    Again, unclear.
    Sorry, this is starting to sound like astrology -- you read into it what
    you expect to read into it.
    That's dead wrong. Husband has never needed anybody's approval and is
    fully confident that he can do anything he puts his mind to, and he's
    absolutely right. I have independent confirmation for that -- I've
    chatted with his bosses and work-friends, who were in absolute awe of
    his abilities.
    Surely not!
    I wouldn't say you fell, but my interest has been, um, satisfied.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
    If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
    --Revolution Books, New York, New York
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest



    Dont forget that while you are young and had good accommodation you
    could compensate for hyperopia by accommodating...so what you are
    saying below suggests that you were hyperopic and did compensate.
    Not suppression. With suppression you would not be aware you were
    angry. I think you are aware at at least some level you are pissed
    off, but i would guess you are unsure what to do with it.

    Remember this is a general pattern associated with hyperopia. It cant
    fully and accurately describe you in complete detail. From what you
    are saying it seems as if anger, and the astigmatic stubborness
    inflexibility and inpatience are issues in your life. I am saying
    that this is a common general pattern in hyperopia which is not the
    same as happens in other types of vision problem.
    You are more instrospective than you like to be....fair enuf. But is
    this the same as saying you do not like to be introspective which is
    what i would expect due to hyperopia being present? The hyperopic
    pattern is to not like getting involved in paper work and detail.

    What I have superficially noticed about you is that when answering
    posts (and you have been here since 1997 at least), you dont get
    involved in optometry details. You seem more of a political person,
    or a commentator. Is that a fair observation?
    I am not referring to what they see with their eyes though. They like
    to dissect things, analyse things, break things **and** ideas down
    into tiny parts.

    Its like the guy who wants to know how many CC's the car has, how the
    fuel is aspirated, its torque at 1000 rpm etc versus the lady who
    wants a red car and does not care which end the engine goes. One
    overlooks the car is too small for his family and gets lost in detail,
    while the other wants a functional utility vehicle.
    Well here i am assuming you do get angry and that it might be possible
    to live life differently if you could more easily be passionate about
    what is currently making you angry. Rather than shooting other
    motorists (sure i know that was a joke) it might be easier to become
    an advocate for car pooling or something.
    Seems i am more wrong about the thing i know the most about - myopia!
    and less wrong about the thing i know least about - hyperopia! :-(

    Myopic people are usually very competant workers as they are
    exstremely conscientious and very attentive to detail. They are very
    logical and analytical.

    Myopia tends to become more visible in relationships. The weakness or
    insecurity is not manifested in professional life as much as personal
    life.

    The richest man on the planet is after all a myope.....but a bit
    nerdy.
    Well all in all I was relieved to see you entered into the spirit of
    the post i made and did not take offence:)
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 17, 2004
    #15
  16. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    If I couldn't tell I had a vision problem, how could I react to it? And
    if my personality caused the vision problem, why did it take so long to
    manifest itself -- there are lots of young astigmatic hyperopes, aren't
    there? Or are there?
    Sure. I'm only interested in the tech details insofar as they can be
    useful to me.
    That's not a good comparison -- there's too much applied gender
    difference.
    Nope, I love driving cars. I love riding motorcycles. Since I love
    both those things, I can't very well advocate others' stopping driving
    in favor of public transportation even though it would definitely be of
    benefit to me. Shooting is clearly the best way -- remember, I'm a
    SoCalian, and we learn to reload with one hand!
    More likely that my husband is pretty damn atypical of anything at all.
    That's a fair assessment. Son is also that way, and it will be
    interesting to see which of us he follows re vision. At nearly 38 he
    seems more like his father, but he bought a pair of 99-cent readers to
    use when making changes to tiny circuit board traces.
    Perhaps he was, but now Gates is just a shithead. Or do you mean the
    Sultan of Brunei?
    People who intend to offend are generally quite obvious about it :)
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 18, 2004
    #16
  17. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    I meant that the eye compensates for the hyperopia by using some of
    its spare focusing abilitity - which we have heaps of when we are
    younger.

    Many young people have varying degrees of hyperopia but they dont
    notice it until they become older, but it can be measured if they have
    a full eye exam.
    This is an interesting question. Relatively high astigmatism is
    observed to be associated with hyperopia in adults but does the
    astigmatism develop later in life? We need some of those damned
    statistics or perhaps an opinion from an opto?
    That gender comparison is actually relevant. In a generalised
    manner we can say that men are more left brained than women. Many men
    favour a way of looking at life based on logic, analysis, detail and
    thinking in a verbal manner, compared to looking at life in a touchy
    feely, emotional, intuitive, creative holistic manner.

    In a healthy person there is a balance of these ways of being but
    women seem better at integrating these two different ways of seeing.
    Do men tend to get stuck in detail **or** get stuck in emotion for
    example? In women the communication pathway between the left and
    right brains has been found to be bigger - which might account for
    this difference.

    Myopes are excessively left brained. They do well in left brained type
    intelligence tests but tend to be emotionally immature, and find it
    hard to be spontaneously expressive in a natural manner appropriate
    for the particular moment - hence the nerd or geek factor:-( I am a
    myope by the way!

    It has been suggested that hyperopes are excessively right brained.
    As you said earlier you will look at detail if you need to.
    I cant help chuckling here:) I have a mixed feelings about violence.
    I get excited by a good boxing match or street fight. I will punch
    somebody if i really have to - and make sure they stay down with it!
    But my mother and father were always very vocal against violence but
    used to believe in smacking and mum only stopped slapping me around
    the face as hard as she could once i got to the age where i was big
    enuf to physically restrain her:-(
    Electronics is a fairly right brained activity. The exact detail has
    to be known but the fun for many is not in the detail (which has
    already been worked out by others) but in assembling the parts to
    construct a whole product. The detail is important but it is the
    finished product which has priority.

    Looking at things in parts is left brained, and looking at things in
    wholes is right brained.

    So we could look at a person and judge their different qualities and
    weigh up if we like them or not.....or we can just take one look and
    not like them at all. Neither separate way of viewing people would
    be very successful, because we are not just a left brain or a right
    brain but both.
    The sultan is richer but I was thinking of Bill.

    Bill being a myope is interesting

    Myopes are in need of a certain kind of emotional experience before
    they can return to a more balanced way of being. Often this can be
    traced to difficult relationships with loved ones earlier in their
    lives. Myopes become separated from loved ones *before* they are
    emotionally ready for this but often are driven to separate due to a
    need for independance from excessively controlling care givers. They
    are kind of in a limbo state of being emotionally dependant but unable
    to be emotionally independant. Love hate relationships are common in
    their past, but hate is not seen as being a result of wanting a
    particular kind of loving response that was not experienced or not
    **perceived** to be experienced.

    Because myopes are preocuppied with their own emotional difficulties
    (at an inner level) they tend to be rather self absorbed. This can
    make them selfish.

    Bill is kind of stuck in this confusing world. That can make him seem
    like a complete shithead, but all he really needs is somebody to love
    the child in him. With so much wealth he must struggle to work out
    who loves him and who just wants his money.

    Myopes are insecure and have issues to do with power and control:)

    Thanks for listening:)

    Andrew
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 18, 2004
    #17
  18. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    Who could love a person who wants to inflict crap on the entire world
    and has actually pretty much succeeded in doing so? If she really loves
    him, Melinda must be a very strange and complex person. God help the
    kid.
    Maybe he just needs a good rebooting, a few kicks short of an actual
    Blue Screen Of Death...
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 18, 2004
    #18
  19. Jeff

    andrew Judd Guest

    Well why stop there?

    I use to be solidly an IBM programmer who hated MS

    Even IBM executives told us that their mission was to kill MS

    Meanwhile back in the real World IBM make Billions and Billions via
    the patents that they take out on the kinds of ideas that MS
    eventually incorporates into its products.

    Who knows? Maybe IBM has some secret think tank that promotes MS type
    wobbly architectures because it knows that IBM itself would never
    lower itself to make money in such a manner **but** it is fully aware
    that it can make money from MS indirectly?

    Maybe not, but meanwhile we are all more or less happily chatting and
    emailing via IBM ideas that are build into Bill's products.

    Its kind of a win win situation:)
     
    andrew Judd, Jul 19, 2004
    #19
  20. Jeff

    The Real Bev Guest

    Then you came after IBM bought MSDOS from Gates. I wonder how different
    our lives would be if Gary Kildall had been willing to cancel his
    previous engagement and talk to the IBM people about CP/M.
    A goal worthy of Don Quixote, although he's really IBM's creation.
    Frankengates?
    Most originally came from Xerox, and Jobs lifted it first.
    I would not like to think that all those nice men with white dress
    shirts and pocket protectors would be so duplicitous. I think it's
    pretty cool that IBM is now lolidly behind linux (for whatever that's
    worth), but I have to wonder about their stenciling pro-linux slogans
    all over (I think) the sidewalks in Hollywood. Graffiti is graffiti,
    even done in a good cause.
    Some of are happier with Linus' offerings. I've got a winmachine
    running, but mostly for TurboTax and hardware that doesn't have
    non-windows drivers. Cheap cameras, mostly...
    Only for extremely low values of "win".
     
    The Real Bev, Jul 19, 2004
    #20
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