Using the near point test and a ruler, I measured my manifast refraction!

Discussion in 'Optometry Archives' started by acemanvx, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    Did you know you can get an accurate measure right here at home or
    anywhere with just a ruler and some lines and/or text? What I did was
    measure the point where a long line becomes in perfect focus, not any
    closer or further. Since I have cylindar, I need to use a line. I
    measure how far the line is in focus at two points opposite from each
    other, the further point is how myopic I am and the nearer point is my
    myopia plus the cylindar causing blur in that particular direction. In
    my right eye(OD) I measured 27cm in one direction(opposite to my
    cylindar axis) and 20cm in the direction that blurs the most which is
    my axis of cylindar. The left eye(OS) measured at 22.5cm and 20cm.
    Using the astigmatic wheel confirms oblique cylindar, considerably
    worse in the right eye.

    Therefore I am -3.75-1.25 OD and -4.5-.5 OS. This is just an estimate
    and not an official pescription. To obtain an offical pescription, see
    a licenced optometrist/opthamologist. The near point test is useful for
    monitoring the prograss of vision improvement which I have and its
    improved considerably. I will be getting a regime of atropine to unmask
    the rest of my tonic accomodation and reveal my structual axial myopia.
    Hopefully it improves alot and doesnt regress once the atropine wears
    off. I will do eye exercises and forgo the minus lens whenever I can do
    keep my vision sharp and reduce dependancy on glasses.



    right eye(OD)-3.75-1.25
    Left eye(OS)-4.5-.5
     
    acemanvx, Jul 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    http://groups.google.com/group/sci....d/e18f478f3432cf65/de509627d1cad4e7?lnk=raot&


    the above thread talks of me planning to get a regime of atropine to
    ummask all my tonic accomodation. Its highly likley I have at least a
    full diopter of it and quite possible a couple diopters. If all my
    astigmastim is on my cornea, there shouldnt be any changes in the
    cylindar. Hopefully my cylindar goes away with natural vision
    improvement as I heard straining your eyes causes your corneas to
    physically distort. My cylindar has never been truly stable, changing
    from time to time in diopter(s) and axis. I can do something to
    exercise it away. Whatever myopia I have under cycloplegia, I should
    get down to that for my manifast refraction with eye exercises. I could
    be looking at a major reduction in glasses dependancy depending how
    things go! :) :) :)
     
    acemanvx, Jul 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear AceMan,

    I would not use atropine (bella-donna). I personally dislike the
    effect, and it a drug
    that should be used with discretion. I think you will find it
    difficult to find
    an ophthamologist to "prescribe" it for you.

    Also, be aware that "vision clearing" (change of refractive state in a
    positive direction)
    is a very slow process. My estimate is no greater that +1/2 diopter
    per year.
    Transient clearing has been done by a few (from 20/70 to 20/40 or
    better -- pass the DMV)
    but to be truly effective, the "plus" must be continued through the
    school years.

    One item I wish you did have (for your measurements and experiments) is
    a
    low-cost trial lens kit. This would include minus lenses in 1/2
    diopter steps,
    and a trial-frame. Thus, using a Snellen, and the trial-frame you
    could
    come close to duplicating the standard-measurement methods
    using the phoropter.

    Good luck,

    Otis

    ++++++++++++
     
    otisbrown, Jul 15, 2006
    #3
  4. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Mike> How will that help him train his accommodation? Can't he just
    take his
    glasses off and read beyond his nearpoint?

    Otis> That is about his only option. I truly WISH that AceMan had
    been offered the option to ACCEPT support for plus-prevention at the
    threshold. And, perhaps would have TURNED IT DOWN. But then, had he
    done that -- there would be no doubt at all concerning who was
    responsible. If that were "standard practice", the AceMan would not be
    posting about this issue now -- because he would know the consequence
    of negtlect of the preventive-plus. It is clear that the
    preventive-plus is "difficult" -- but it is possible and wise. Only
    the future (and OD parents) will determine when and how it is used.

    Mike> It's an idiotic suggestion, but I do have a small antique trial
    set I'd sell
    for $300, ground shipping included.

    Otis> AceMan wants to "make the measurements". The "ruler" method is
    crude and approximate. A "better organized" method would be with a
    simple trial-frame and a "reduced" set of minus lenses. That way he
    could check (same as you) any vision-clearing he might experience.
    That way he could "trust" himself -- with some supporting training --
    and double-check any "prescription" he might receive.

    Otis> I think that a "simplified" trial-lens kit could be developed
    for less-than $100 -- if there were interest in doing so.

    Best,

    Otis
     
    otisbrown, Jul 15, 2006
    #4
  5. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear Mike,

    You keep on jumping to CONCLUSIONS -- about many issues.

    I NEVER use the word "cure" -- as you do.

    I do ACCEPT that you can not deliver "prevention" -- and that
    PREVENTION will depend on the person himself -- making
    a CHOICE in this matter.

    This is the same issue of Steve Leung OD making a CHOICE for
    his own children when there refractive STATE is zero diopters.

    That issue is critical. Steve has his CHILDREN faithfully putting
    on a +2 or so lens -- for all reading.

    The effect of this can be PREVENTION for them, through the grade
    school, high school, college and graduate school.

    But only his kids will gain the benifit of it.

    This is a hard choice that ONLY a parent could make. And he
    has made it that way. Others MIGHT LEARN FROM IT -- but
    the more probably course of action will come from engineer-parents
    who learn how to NOT repeat the mistakes of the past -- and
    insist that their children wear the low-cost plus -- when their
    refractive STATE is close to zero.

    This is completly consistent with the Oakley-Young study which
    shows that a plus -- used early -- can have the effect of PREVENTION.

    But it also suggests that the use of the plus in this manner MUST BE
    UNDER CONTROL OF THE PERSON WHO MAKES THIS TYPE
    OF WISE CHOICE.

    Maybe AceMan will be making this type of "choice" for his children,
    as their refractive STATE moves from a positive to negative value.

    By then I hope that MORE prevention-minded optometrists will be
    SUPPORTIVE of this PREVENTIVE method.

    I know how EASY that minus lens is -- how impressive -- how
    it "works" in 5 minutes.

    And that is a major "selling" point.

    And the plus can NEVER do that. It will take the person himself
    to figure that out.

    Maybe AceMan will eventually do that -- for his own children.

    But that will be about 15 years from now.

    As you know, the person who figures out how to CLEAR his vision,
    and pass all legal visual-acuity tests -- NEVER FALLS UNDER
    YOUR CONTROL.

    And this type of issue places the solution beyond your control.

    Best,

    Otis
     
    otisbrown, Jul 16, 2006
    #5
  6. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest


    Good advice. Is this as good as a week long regime of atropine? I dont
    think id like the idea of punctal occlusion or having plugs inserted in
    my tear ducts. Also with atropine, this will be the most complete
    cycloplegia and while my mydrisis will last 2 weeks, ill deal with it,
    I stay home most of the time anyway. My vision is already blurry from
    near with glasses and if atropine unmaks enough tonic accomodation,
    then great I wont need distance glasses! In fact the more tonic
    accomodation I have, the better because I can exercise it away and ill
    be less myopic for real! If atropine takes 4 days to fully work, ill
    get a 5-7 day regime and at the end, see him again for another
    refraction. I have tried cyclopentolate and it was incomplete so I am
    going with a regime of atropine.
     
    acemanvx, Jul 16, 2006
    #6
  7. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    Otis, as ive already said, no one told me about the plus lens at the
    treshold. I dont care if optometrist think it wont work, I have the
    right to make the choice that I was never even informed about. I cant
    turn time back and cant do much now except reduce my myopia. The good
    side is ill never need reading glasses. I will be sure to take my
    family's relatives to a second opinion optometrist
     
    acemanvx, Jul 16, 2006
    #7
  8. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest

    I am going to schedule an appointment with an ophthamologist. Well see
    what he says, but ill be sure to mention my tonic accomodation and at
    least 4 day atropine regime to make sure to unlock every bit of tonic
    accomodation. Would more than 4 days make a difference? If not 4 days
    is enough and on the 4th day ill visit him for my cycloplegic
    refraction, hopefully much lower than my manifast. Would it be possible
    that maybe the tonic accomodation wont return?
     
    acemanvx, Jul 17, 2006
    #8
  9. acemanvx

    otisbrown Guest

    Dear AceMan,

    I personally DISLIKE the effect of a myadric. Even the mild cyclogel
    -- that lasts about 3 to 6 hours.

    I personally doubt that you will accomplish very much by your 4 day
    '"test".

    Your "manifest" is good -- so far.

    If you are going to spend money -- I would suggest obtain a trial lens
    kit (or make one us from Zenni-optical lenses. That way you
    can read your Snellen, and find out the minimum strength
    minus needed to bring you up to 20/20 -- in day light.

    And further, the MINIMUM minus lens required to clear the
    20/40 line -- again in day light.

    The Zenni-opical lenses sell for $20 for two -- if you wish to do this.

    I think it would be a better "learning" path that to attempt
    anything with atropine-sulfate.

    Further, some people have a "reaction" to that drug -- and I think
    and ophthamologist would warn you about these "secondary" effects.

    Again, I wish there were a low-cost trial-frame and lenes on the
    market so you could do these "experiments" wisely and effectively.

    Good luck,

    Otis

    ++++++++
     
    otisbrown, Jul 17, 2006
    #9
  10. acemanvx

    retinula Guest

    do you think that getting a simple trial lens set and sitting in front
    of an acuity chart under bright light will give you a good refraction?
    do you think that there are any other refractive problems aside from
    simple myopia? don't you think that ciliary muscle contraction and
    pseudomyopia have any influence in a persons day-to-day visual acuity?

    who cares about meeting this minimum visual acuity requirement.
    somehow you think this BMV-derived standard is the only level of acuity
    that we should attempt to attain. seeing 20/40 sucks, especially when
    you're driving on a winding two-lane road at night in the rain.

    who cares what you think?
    and plus lenses induce diplopia in some people too.
     
    retinula, Jul 18, 2006
    #10
  11. acemanvx

    acemanvx Guest



    A trial lens set will give you an estimate. So will measuring how far
    away you can see clearly. A professional eye doctor will give me an
    exact manifast and cycloplegic refraction using his phororaptor. By the
    way, a proper refraction should be taken in a dimly lit room because
    bright light can skew the results due to pinhole effect. my
    pseudomyopia is the main reason why I want atropine cycloplegia.


    In Otis' defense, I think he means that WITHOUT correction. If your
    eyes are that bad for full time correction then it makes sense to
    correct you best as possible, but an undercorrection is a good idea for
    close work like reading, eating, computer or to relieve tonic
    accomodation. But if your eyes arent bad, why bother with the wretched
    minus lens which will just make your eyes worse and cause tonic
    accomodation?



    Ill take my chances with cycloplegia in order to improve my vision and
    do away with tonic accomodation which is a real problem for me as I
    cant see well from near with glasses. Its either that or presbyopia and
    I sure hope I am not presbyopic at 24!



    Anon, then ill just use a 4 day regime. Am I supposed to return to the
    doctors office immediately after the final dosage on the 4th day? How
    long does it take for cycloplegia to start wearing off? If any tonic
    accomodation returns after my atropine wears off, ill just exercise it
    away. Ill be wearing glasses that correct my true axial myopia.
     
    acemanvx, Jul 18, 2006
    #11
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