What Darwin Wrote About THE EYE (Aye, Aye, Aye!)

Discussion in 'Eye-Care' started by Ed Conrad, Sep 19, 2004.

  1. Ed Conrad

    Ed Conrad Guest

    As you all know, there's currently a heated debate in the sci
    news groups about what Charles Darwin really said about
    the evolution of the eye.
    It's time this matter is cleared up -- simply and concisely --
    once and for all.
    (Actually, I thought I had ended all the confusion back on
    Saturday, May 11, 1996, when a pseudo named Michael
    Clark accused me of misquoting Darwin. He had the balls
    to say I used only a portion of Darwin's quote.)
    Here's what I said:
    Here's what Charles Darwin really said:
    (Wake me when it's over) Z Z Z Z Z Z Z z z z z z z . . . .
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z z z z z z z . . .

    I thought I said what Darwin had said but David Ian Greig
    said what I said wasn't what Darwin really had said because
    he said Darwin had more to say than what I said he had
    said, then Steve Vickers of the UK butts in and says HE
    knows what Darwin really said, claiming what I said he
    had said wasn't what Darwin really had said, so I said, 'Okay,
    I'll say what they say about what Darwin really said, since
    I suppose that this is indeed what he had said, even though
    I really don't know for sure if he had said it, but this is what
    they say he had said.
    Up your's, Dimwit!

    (Folks, excuse the interruption!)
    Actually, it really doesn't matter what Darwin had said
    or what these fellas said he had said -- or what they say
    I said or didn't say --- since what I said, whether Darwin
    said it or not, isn't something that really had to be said.
    Perhaps Darwin said what he said because he felt he
    had to say it -- he certainly was entitled to say what he
    wanted to say. But by saying what they say he had said,
    he actually said more than he needed to say, so maybe
    he didn't have to say what he said. 'Course, IF Darwin
    did say what these fella said he had said, critics could
    later say he had nothing to say even though he had said it.

    Ed Conrad
    Emeritus Professor of Journalism
    Ediacara University
    Walla Walla, WA
    Ed Conrad, Sep 19, 2004
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  2. Ed Conrad

    Steve Hayes Guest


    I hadn't noticed.

    I thought it was all about anthropological theory.
    Steve Hayes, Sep 20, 2004
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  3. Ed Conrad

    Otis Brown Guest

    Dear Steve,

    This sounds like a "creation versus evolution" debate.

    What I would suggest is that the natural eye is
    a very sophisticated system, and behaves that
    way -- when preceived through engineering
    (control-system) analyis.

    This is a great tribute to the Designer.

    Have I correctly mixed God's creation of the natural eye with equal
    respect for the Darwin's "evolutionary process"?


    Otis Brown, Sep 20, 2004
  4. Well, except that the eye doesn't work very well for a large number of
    people. If people were without glasses, you might see up to half the
    population being functionally blind or practically illiterate. Glasses makes
    up for what the Designer did not do.

    What we *do* see in the creation is a nested hierarchy of eyes and eye
    functions. We even see dramatically different types of eyes within the same
    environment for creatures of very different lineages. Some confer much
    better ability to see in their environment, and so avoid dangers and find

    Hmmm. Designer thinks: I don't like the way you look. Oh well, I'll use you
    anyway, but here is a very minimal eye so that your kind will get eaten more
    often. And here is a good eye to the creature who is going to getcha!

    Of course, if one reads John 9 literally and applies Christ's answer about
    *why* the man who was born blind was born that way, God has decided in
    advance who will get good eyes and who will not. Are medical doctors who put
    antibiotics into the eyes of babies thwarting God's plans? Are eye surgeons
    who literally give sight back to the blind helping people to defy God? Are
    vision specialists who determine what correction a person needs for their
    vision arguing with the Great Designer? Somewhere the design is imperfect or
    the mechanism is broken. If you wish to "credit" God with designing
    imperfection, then ....


    Raymond E. Griffith
    Raymond E. Griffith, Sep 20, 2004
  5. Hmmm. I think I would. After all, this is God's creation, and God knows
    exactly what's going on every microsecond. If there are bad eyes, then
    surgeons, opticians, glasses and contacts are God's way of fixing that
    problem ;-)
    Elmer Bataitis, Sep 21, 2004
  6. Ed Conrad

    Guest Guest

    A nice view on these matters Elmer, I'll keep it in mind.

    Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
    Guest, Sep 21, 2004
  7. I thought that biology and anthropology are compatible with each
    other. Similar to physics and chemistry being compatible aka
    "Physical Chemistry" for example.
    Roshard Davis, Sep 21, 2004
  8. Greetings Ed. Actually I agree with you. I'm a huge fan of
    Darwin's works and his theories on evolution and that is what he said
    in one of his books. I don't understand why people, especially those
    that are religious and are creationist have such a big problem with
    the guy.
    Roshard Davis, Sep 21, 2004
  9. So let me get this straight. First gawd makes a really crappy eye design.
    Then rather than correct the design at some point in several gazillion
    years, he designs some creatures who can a few half-assed, invaisve
    procedures that kinda, sorta improve some of the really POS eyes. Is that
    about right?

    damn. why didn't gawd just get it right the first time? I mean, since he/she
    is all perfect and shit.
    Aardvark J. Bandersnatch, MP, Sep 22, 2004
  10. Let's say God's physical and biological laws did it. It works, but as with
    most things designed by natural selection, it was a cobbled together job,
    but it mostly works.
    Yup. You got that right.
    Oh, can you cite chapter and verse where God is perfect?
    Elmer Bataitis, Sep 22, 2004
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