Young child with eye problem please help.

Discussion in 'Eye-Care' started by passman, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. passman

    passman Guest


    We've got a 14 months old baby boy that periodically turns his left eye
    He has been doing this since birth and most people told us he would
    it. He was born premature, is classified as a 10 month old right now,
    and for the first few hours of each day, the eye
    does not turn(or turns very little). I took him to the eye doctor
    and the doctor told us he has severe farsightedness. I have watched my
    focus in on very small objects close to him, and I have watched him
    back at me from a distance of 80 feet. The ophthalmologist told us that
    is farsighted & will need glasses (+5 !?)
    Obviously we are quiet shocked by this (no family histories of
    Strabismus or
    bad vision)
    because he is so young & also doesn't show any signs of having problems
    seeing the world around him, he has been walking for several months and

    doesn't bump into anything & he's very interested in books and can
    distinguish & name items that look very much alike like a cow/horse &
    duck/chicken. It appears that the eye is turning in less often as time
    by. The doctor is suggesting glasses and I am worried that the glasses
    prevent my Childs natural progression to a normal state. I have read
    the glasses halt

    What I would like to know is:

    there any alternative approach to correct this situation other than
    glasses, and, is this something that may naturally get better as time
    on?(as I said, it happens roughly 10% of the time throughout the day)

    Is there a change that his eyes will improve by wearing glasses or will
    glasses prevent the bodies natural method or correcting the eyes as my

    I would be very grateful for any information (links) related to babies
    passman, Apr 13, 2005
    1. Advertisements

  2. This is one case where early intervention with glasses may be absolutely
    necessary to prevent serious vision disability in the deviating eye.
    If it is conclusively established that the degree of hyperopia is
    causing esotropia, you MUST supply the child with appropriate glasses
    (or as he gets older, contact lenses). This is the only way he will be
    able to utilize both eyes together and prevent amblyopia (lazy eye).
    This is one area that mainstream optometry, ophthalmology and the
    science of physiological optics all agree. Do NOT listen to any
    pseudoscientific suggestions to the contrary that might pop up here.
    And do NOT wait until he is older to act. He needs to establish normal
    binocularity (no strabismus) by age 4 or 5 at the latest for his visual
    system to develop normally.

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Apr 13, 2005
    1. Advertisements

  3. passman

    Dr. Leukoma Guest

    This child is at high risk for amblyopia, i.e. lazy eye. The standard
    treatment of accommodative esotropia is eyeglasses, followed by
    patching if the doctor determines that the vision in one of turned eye
    is subnormal, i.e. amblyopic. If proper treatment is delayed or
    denied, then there is a risk of permanent vision loss. If you are not
    comfortable with the advice of the doctor, then get a second opinion
    from a pediatric vision specialist.

    Dr. Leukoma, Apr 13, 2005
  4. passman

    g.gatti Guest


    Discard the glasses, read the book by Emily Lierman, Stories From The

    What do you think an eye doctor will tell you if not buy the glasses???

    You should not talk with the hanged man about which rope has to be used.
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  5. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    Neil Brooks wrote:

    He knows you are disgusting with your treatments.

    In fact he asks for some alternative method.

    I have supplied him with the source of such method, which is not
    alternative at all, just the proper method.

    It is silly that these people who ask for help then disappear and do
    not continue to tell how things are going.

    It's the same thing you do with your own patients: they are cheated by
    yourself then they go to some other doctor, who cheats them also, and
    the story goes on ad libitum, and nobody gets any cure whatever.
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  6. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    I have received an e-mail by somebody called William Stacey, a
    so-called eye doctor.

    He says that I could be arrested for what I am saying.

    He says that since I have no training in visual science, I should be

    I don't know.

    I have seen people become able to read a whole snellen chart which was
    just a gray smudge in a few minutes of rest treatment they administered
    by themselves to themselves.

    I don't think either I have any visual science training.

    But what to do?

    Do you think it is a crime to witness and tell stories about

    Do you think it is a crime to become cure of a disease???

    I really don't know.

    The poor father who has come here to seek advice, may find great advice
    in the books I sell and which are free downloads on the Internet.

    There it is said what to do in a case like his.

    Simple techniques, rocking the child, having him move his gaze, and so

    What is the need of any "visual science training"???

    These things are simple, make no harm: the only harm they can do is to
    cure the problem.

    The doctors here are jealous that patients/clients may find their own
    way to get cured without the need to pay their fees.

    This is what I see going on since eons.

    I had -5 dioptres prescription, which is now regarded as a really
    ridiculous problem, by myself.

    I am becoming interested in heavy cases, high-myopia, or serious
    diseases like glaucoma.

    These are really a great challenge for my intelligence and for those
    who suffer from them, to see if we are able to grasp what is the cause
    and cure it.

    The other day a client called me to get the book and talked about her
    glaucoma. She has to take such a long series of drugs to cope. I said
    her to continue to take the drugs, of course, because I am not a
    doctor, but to follow the instructions as outlined in the book by Dr.
    Bates, the discoverer of adrenalin, so not an idiot by any means, and
    let his own physician to check for improvements.

    What do you think, Mr. Stacey?

    What is your vested interest in this field?

    Don't you think there could be someone more learned than you, to rob
    your job???

    Are you afraid?

    What is the fear of a simple technique like rocking the child in the
    father's lap???

    Why are you against this?

    The only answer is that you are afraid this simple technique may work
    (my suspect is that you KNOW it will work!) and the child become cured
    quickly and without much "visual science" applied.

    This is my answer, I simply know it is not a wrong answer.

    What is your comment?

    This is a "scientific" forum, we should talk of reproducible data.

    Reproduce the symptom in any given baby and I will tell you what to do
    to remove the symptom.

    Don't you accept the challenge?

    Why not?
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  7. passman

    Neil Brooks Guest

    I imagine that consistently spelling your name, or buttoning a dress
    shirt correctly each pose a similar challenge.
    Neil Brooks, Apr 13, 2005
  8. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    Now--three eye surgeries later--my alignment is worse than ever and



    Butchers have full right to cut and paste and destroy, it seems.

    Yes, keep us up-to-date.
    Mr. Neil, please, can you tell us what these old doctors did to you to
    have left you in such an handicapped state?

    Please, give me a link where I can read your whole story of sufferings.

    In particular, I would like to know WHEN AND WHERE you got 100%
    ASSURANCE that your present silly condition was due to a mistreatment,
    and what was this mistreatment.

    I am very interested in your case because even if you have already
    YOUR OWN WORDS, I have an ambition to help you cure yourself by means
    of rest self-treatments.

    Please follow up, I am really eager to help you, I am not kidding.

    Yours sincerely
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  9. passman

    Neil Brooks Guest

    No. In *your* words. In *my* words, each helped restore mechanical
    alignment and occupational functionality for a number of years.

    Unfortunately, my case was "proof" of the theory that, in infantile
    esotropes, if the neurologic ability for fusion/stereopsis didn't
    develop appropriately, then surgically aligned eyes are unlikely to
    stay straight. No "detent" exists.

    Nonetheless, all of these therapies returned me to work for several
    years on several occasions. Unfortunately, I was born with a lousy
    set of eyes a few decades too early.
    Not if you were the last troll on earth.....

    But thanks. I'll always remember fondly your compassionate outreach.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to induce emesis....
    Neil Brooks, Apr 13, 2005
  10. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    Well, are you happy about the outcome or not?

    It is not clear.

    It seems as if you first say you were unfortunate, then that you were

    I do not understand, perhaps because I had no training in visual
    So, you have been "surgically aligned", but this did not work.

    Now you prescribe for the poor father the same treatment based on

    Am I wrong?
    So your assumption is that TODAY your eyes could be cured, but of
    course there is no counter-proof, and in fact the poor father is
    depressed because GUESS WHAT the doctors he consulted WANTED TO PUT
    GLASSES over the poor babe's eyes... SAME OLD ROTTEN TREATMENT, it

    What do you think?

    It seems you trust these doctors today just as you trusted them forty
    years ago, and they proved a failure...

    Thank you.
    You go induce whatever you want, let me know if it is successful!

    It seems you have an attraction for unsuccessful practices.

    What has happened to your eyes, in the end?

    What are the treatments you are following?

    It's interesting that the people who are suffering are those who want
    to counsell and treat others...

    What is your opinion about this?
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  11. passman

    Neil Brooks Guest

    Actualy, you don't understand because:

    a) you are of exceptionally limited intelligence, and
    b) what you try to understand, you see through the filter of a very
    clear agenda: to sell Bates books

    I feel UNfortunate to have been born with the set of eyes that I was.

    I feel UNfortunate that less was known *then* about treating my sort
    of eye issues than is known *now*.

    I feel fortunate that--considering how poor my eyes were and are--that
    good and caring and educated and intelligent doctors worked with me to
    improve my situation which was already worsening with age.
    Of course, you're wrong, Rishi. You're always wrong. Why don't you
    get that?

    I "prescribe" (suggest, actually) *better* treatment--treatment not
    available, not known, or not well understood 40 years ago. Sort of
    like the way you think, but you think about vision more like people
    did, say, a few *hundred* years ago.

    In a percentage of cases, an esotrope is a *true congenital, or
    infantile* esotrope, meaning that they were born with this condition.
    In those few cases, there is virtually no chance that a neurologic
    center for achieving stereopsis will have formed. That being the
    case, even if the eyes are *mechanically* aligned, there is no
    mechanism for keeping them there, nor, theoretically, can one be

    In cases where the esotropia develops somewhere *after* the first
    couple of weeks or months post-partem (doc's: correct me if I'm wrong
    on the timing), it is possible that fusion has developed, giving the
    brain an understanding of what two fused images should look like, and
    a way to turn those images into a single, three-dimensional image.
    Where that mechanism *has* developed, then restoring functional
    alignment to the eyes--by vision therapy, prism lenses, surgery, or a
    combination thereof--is an important goal, and likely to solve the
    alignment problem, given sufficient vergence amplitudes.
    The difference (one of a million) between *these doctors* and you is
    that--given additional research and valid information--they learn new
    methods, procedures, and techniques, improving their outcomes all the
    while. You, on the other hand, don't even *redecorate* your cave
    Still got 'em.
    Well . . . I tried the Bates method, with a well-known Southern
    California practitioner, for about a year, but everything got worse,
    so I stopped immediately. It seems not to have any validity.
    I think your suffering is evident on many levels, Rishi, and I pity
    you . . . but you already know that. The difference (one of millions)
    between you and me is that I use what I've learned to try to help
    people. You use what you've contrived as a way to make money, the
    health and well-being of others be damned.
    Neil Brooks, Apr 13, 2005
  12. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    Ok, I understand.
    Ok, I understand.
    Ok, I understand. SO now you trust the doctor that YEARS AGO you have
    trusted but mistreated you.

    I see that eyeglasses are a treatment 400 years old, so Otis has said
    here and was not contradicted.
    I don't know how to apply your definitions to find a cure.
    To call something "true congenital" is not very much helpful and indeed
    is a curse. Are you happy to be cursed?

    I don't know from where you have picked up this devastating conviction.
    How can you be so sure that you cannot do anything for that

    It seems such an arbitrary statement... And stupid too!!! It prevents
    any possibility of an improvement... I don't understand now. Are you a
    I don't know, you are able to discern a limit, 2 weeks, 2 months...
    Your span is very vast, more than 400% of inaccuracy, perhaps Otis can
    calculate better how much is your error vastness... Then you say: out
    of this limit, nothing can be done, while we know that even 80 years
    old people have been helped by Dr. Bates in Harlem in 1925 to see even
    if blind, there are published articles which prove this, and direct
    testimonials... I dont' understand why you are so happy to be abused by
    science and medicine, they cannot do anything for you and still you
    praise these systems...
    I don't know, people come and buy the book and study it and get quick
    results and are fed up with the treatments of your doctors. What to do?
    It seems you are dumb. People come to buy the books to find relief from

    No, please, don't go to the "Bates practitioners", they are cheaters,
    they never had even read Dr. Bates book, discard them. You should take
    responsability for yourself, study the original books and start
    practicing. Have you started to learn to look at the sun? It is basic
    and fundamental.

    It seems you have learned nothing.

    Your condition is difficult, in your own words, how can you say that
    you have learned something useful?

    I don't know, perhaps my English understanding is very poor indeed, it
    will be helpful if some reader could help me in this.

    This Neil seems a very stupid man or just he does not understand what
    he is doing to himself...

    Where is Jamie? Perhaps she can help me learn better what this poor
    Neil is doing...
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
  13. passman

    Neil Brooks Guest

    I get farther heckling you than I do trying to work with you.
    Neil Brooks, Apr 13, 2005
  14. Well, since Mr (Mrs? Ms?) Gatti chose to mention my email to him, I
    thought I'd better post what I did send him, even though I said I
    wouldn't. My habit is to not respond to trolls, especially not in a
    public forum, but this case is pretty egregious.

    Here's what I wrote:

    "I will not post this publicly, but you obviously have no formal visual
    science education or you'd know better than to offer such potentially
    damaging advice. I don't know about Italy, but in the U.S. you could be
    arrested for suggesting that kind of child abuse, and I would be one who
    would turn you in."

    Now this email has apparently caused this person to become completely
    deranged (if you care to read his posts, the paranoid schizophrenia
    shines through brilliantly). Either that or he/she/it is a very clever
    troll indeed.

    In my original post to this thread I predicted some off the wall advice,
    but never dreamed it could be so other-worldly. I'm becoming convinced
    that the internet has the capacity to cause mild cases of delusion to
    degenerate into fulminating psychoses. I will offer no more responses to
    this poster in private or in public, and only hope he/she/it obtains
    the counseling and medication that is so sorely needed before serious
    damage is done.

    w.stacy, o.d.
    William Stacy, Apr 13, 2005
  15. passman

    g.gatti Guest

    You, Mr. Stacy, being a doctor, are supposed to help people, not to
    harass them with your insults.

    I see you have no answer to my questions, and you have no answers for
    the questions of your patients, too, I mean useful answers, practical.

    I don't understand why you so-called learned men go on reading my posts
    and talk to me, a very clever troll...

    I have asked many times to forgive and foget me, please, don't mind
    what I say, just go away, cultivate your killfile and be at peace.

    Do you wear eyeglasses?
    g.gatti, Apr 13, 2005
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.